Noah's Ark & The Global Flood

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_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Dr. Shades wrote:
The Nehor wrote:My guess on the Flood. It was local. Noah did not take every animal on the ark. He took every domesticated animal and animal they used. This would enable him to restart his flocks after they got off the ark.


How does that theory answer cinepro's latter six questions?


What do cinepro's six questions have to do with anything stated by bcspace thus far?
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_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Infymus wrote:
bcspace wrote:
How did all the vegetation survive? Did Noah take seeds of each plant variety with him, as well? Who reseeded the earth? That would be time consuming, eh?


I think it would take more than a global flood to kill off all the seeds.

However, I prefer a local flood, such as the filling of the Black Sea and the notion that (from the local pov) the whole world was flooded spread amongst civilizations.


Quit lying bcspace. Your own Prophet, JFS stated that the WHOLE WORLD was flooded in order to baptize it.

You and your apologistic ILK twist and convolute your own doctrine in order to make yourselves feel better.

But according to your so-called "Read the First Bullet Point" in your tag - it basically says that your Cult can say whatever it wants, whenever it wants, and if something is no longer applicable or favorable, well, then they reserve the right to simply change it, white wash it, lie about it, convolute it or even erase it.

Your cult and its members stand for nothing.

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What the heck is your punk problem, Infymus? bc stated what he speculates regarding the flood, you hop right over that directly to what Joseph Smith said.

Is bc allowed to think?

And don't give me that cult indoctrination crap. He's thinking on the screen in front of your eyes and instead of accurately reading what the man has to say and responding to it on point, you see "TBM", slap a bullseye on it and start shooting.

You are exactly like Pahoran.
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_Sethbag
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Post by _Sethbag »

cinepro wrote:And what did the rainbow covenant represent? There have been innumerable limited floods in the last 4,000 years. What was God covenanting not to do?


Not to mention the obvious trouble of a local flood, if it is to represent the baptism of the Earth, as we're commonly taught, supporting the method of baptism by sprinkling like the Catholics do it, rather than immersion, as the LDS claim is necessary. ;-)
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_Dr. Shades
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Post by _Dr. Shades »

Jersey Girl wrote:What do cinepro's six questions have to do with anything stated by bcspace thus far?


They disprove bcspace's assumptions via the teachings of bcspace's own church.
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_The Nehor
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Post by _The Nehor »

Sethbag wrote:
cinepro wrote:And what did the rainbow covenant represent? There have been innumerable limited floods in the last 4,000 years. What was God covenanting not to do?


Not to mention the obvious trouble of a local flood, if it is to represent the baptism of the Earth, as we're commonly taught, supporting the method of baptism by sprinkling like the Catholics do it, rather than immersion, as the LDS claim is necessary. ;-)


Well, like a real baptism if it didn't go all the way under, God will just have to do it again.
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_Jersey Girl
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Dr. Shades wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:What do cinepro's six questions have to do with anything stated by bcspace thus far?


They disprove bcspace's assumptions via the teachings of bcspace's own church.


I didn't see that bcspace was defending or promoting church teachings. How can cinepro possible "disprove" bcspaces assumptions (which are based on the work of credible geologists) using church teachings as "proof"?

Are you saying that cinepro is proving Genesis and if so, when he does so successfully will you alert me to the posts?
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_Infymus
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Post by _Infymus »

Jersey Girl wrote:What the heck is your punk problem, Infymus? bc stated what he speculates regarding the flood, you hop right over that directly to what Joseph Smith said.

Is bc allowed to think?

And don't give me that cult indoctrination crap. He's thinking on the screen in front of your eyes and instead of accurately reading what the man has to say and responding to it on point, you see "TBM", slap a bullseye on it and start shooting.

You are exactly like Pahoran.


I didn't know that bc could think and be a good Morgbot. The two are incompatible.

I have no idea who this Pahoran guy is other than somebody on the MAAD board.
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Post by _Jersey Girl »

Moniker wrote:How did all the vegetation survive? Did Noah take seeds of each plant variety with him, as well? Who reseeded the earth? That would be time consuming, eh?



Yes, in order to accept the story of Noah as involving a flood of global proportions and killing virtually everything on earth (except sea life, I suppose but even that would likely have been in jeopardy) you'd have to factor in seeds or cuttings of some sort. So far as reseeding the earth goes, I would assume that would have been accomplished via natural (wind) and human (cultivation) means.

Good question!
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_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

The "Local Flood" theory begs the question: who cares? Could a "local" flood be big enough to affect plant and animal populations to the point that they needed to be preserved in a floating ark? How would that be preferable to God just inspiring the animals to migrate to a non-flood area? Heck, if Noah had enough time to build an ark, why wouldn't he have had enough time to migrate outside the flood zone along with the animals?

Also, assuming the story is true and the ark ended up on the top of a mountain, how deep would the water have to be, and how would a local flood be possible? If it just flooded a plain, or a limited spot of the earth, then the ark would have beached on the edge of the flood.

And what did the rainbow covenant represent? There have been innumerable limited floods in the last 4,000 years. What was God covenanting not to do?


Good questions. I would base my answers to them by logically extending the notion that the flood was local but catastrophic enough to make an impression that gets retold all over the world. In other words, not all the animals in the world needed to be on the ark.

Remember also that Noah was trying to get the people to repent. If such repentence could hold back the flood, then why not preach to the last minute and be prepared just in case? Ten cubic miles of water per day (as is postulated) is too fast to outrun in some circumstances don't you think?
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_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

I really can't see how anyone can read the Genesis description in the plain and grammatical sense without seeing the clear implication that "God"'s intention in loosing the flood on the earth was to destroy everything alive on it:

And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark
.

The whole text is clearly posited on the idea of a universal deluge - which is how it was interpreted for many centuries until it became clear how contrary to all science and common sense that notion is.

Oh, of course believe what you like. Just don't try to get the rest of us to believe that you are doing so on any principled basis of Biblical interpretation (unless it is a principle that every mode of interpretation that gets the CoJCoLDS off the hook is legitimate).



Gen.7
[1] And the LORD said unto Noah, Come thou and all thy house into the ark; for thee have I seen righteous before me in this generation.
[2] Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
[3] Of fowls also of the air by sevens, the male and the female; to keep seed alive upon the face of all the earth.
[4] For yet seven days, and I will cause it to rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and every living substance that I have made will I destroy from off the face of the earth.
[5] And Noah did according unto all that the LORD commanded him.
[6] And Noah was six hundred years old when the flood of waters was upon the earth.
[7] And Noah went in, and his sons, and his wife, and his sons' wives with him, into the ark, because of the waters of the flood.
[8] Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth,
[9] There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
[10] And it came to pass after seven days, that the waters of the flood were upon the earth.
[11] In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, the same day were all the fountains of the great deep broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
[12] And the rain was upon the earth forty days and forty nights.
[13] In the selfsame day entered Noah, and Shem, and Ham, and Japheth, the sons of Noah, and Noah's wife, and the three wives of his sons with them, into the ark;
[14] They, and every beast after his kind, and all the cattle after their kind, and every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind, and every fowl after his kind, every bird of every sort.
[15] And they went in unto Noah into the ark, two and two of all flesh, wherein is the breath of life.
[16] And they that went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and the LORD shut him in.
[17] And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
[18] And the waters prevailed, and were increased greatly upon the earth; and the ark went upon the face of the waters.
[19] And the waters prevailed exceedingly upon the earth; and all the high hills, that were under the whole heaven, were covered.
[20] Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.
[21] And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[22] All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.
[23] And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark.
[24] And the waters prevailed upon the earth an hundred and fifty days.
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