Is Smith's polygamy the Achilles' heel of Mormonism?

[_Boaz & Lidia]

If Smith's revelations to "restore" polygamy were proven false, how would it affect the LDS church as a whole?

Several members of this board any many members of the church have expressed disdain over polygamy. If it were proven false, how would it affect members?

I'd suppose many would pardon it on the grounds that Smith was a prophet and since polygamy is no longer expected by the leaders. In other words members must put more faith in Smith than Christ. [/quote]

[_bcspace]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

[_Sethbag]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

Wow, ginormous non sequitur here. Can the LDS Church be true if we don't stone to death children who talk back to their parents too?

Yes, Boaz, I think that Joseph Smith's rampant adultery is a big achilles heel for the church. I think the Book of Abraham is another one, and if we could find a way to describe the church as having more than two legs, I'm sure we could find more.

[_Chap]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

Now let us see ... polygamy is a 'doctrine', that is, a teaching given explicitly, to which the faithful are expected to adhere. Well, Joseph Smith spoke of it in that ways, certainly: so polygamy certainly was an early doctrine of the CoJCoLDS.

But where in the Old Testament is the practice of having more than one wife taught as a 'doctrine'?

It certainly seems to have happened amongst the ancient Jews, but then so did a lot of other things that the deity portrayed in the Old Testament evidently did not like at all. The most one can say is that he does not seem to have been very bothered about it one way or another.

[_bcspace]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

Wow, ginormous non sequitur here. Can the LDS Church be true if we don't stone to death children who talk back to their parents too?

The non sequitur is yours alone as the law of Moses is fulfilled.

Now let us see ... polygamy is a 'doctrine', that is, a teaching given explicitly, to which the faithful are expected to adhere.

As long as it's authorized by God, yes.

Well, Joseph Smith spoke of it in that ways, certainly: so polygamy certainly was an early doctrine of the CoJCoLDS.

Still is. We do not deny the validity of such previous marriages, nor do we deny the possibility that the Lord may yet again authorize it.

But where in the Old Testament is the practice of having more than one wife taught as a 'doctrine'?

Who says it must be explicitly taught in the Bible? However, among others, we do have David's example wherein we see that God -authorized his plural marriages 2 Samuel 12:7-11.

It certainly seems to have happened amongst the ancient Jews, but then so did a lot of other things that the deity portrayed in the Old Testament evidently did not like at all. The most one can say is that he does not seem to have been very bothered about it one way or another.

A better way to think of it is to note that God authorized it then, so what is His will now?

[_RockHeaded]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

How do you know it's God-authorized? What you need to remember is the Bible tells us God loves everyone, if this is the case why would he expect woman to submit to polygamy? We know from what history has told us that these were really not happy woman. So does God want these woman to be unhappy and this is how he shows them he loves them? Polygamy makes no sense to me.


Jeremiah 17:5-6
5 Thus saith the LORD; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD.

6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh; but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited.

Doesn't this sound like Brigham Young going to Utah (parched places in the wilderness, in a salt land and not inhabited), maketh flesh his arm (lusting after flesh, many wives?) heart departeth from the Lord (Adam God, blood atonement, MMM, polygamy).

I don't believe God authorized polygamy. I believe that polygamy was brought about for the reason of variety in sex partners. I don't see any other reason.


Rockheaded

[_RockHeaded]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

Now let us see ... polygamy is a 'doctrine', that is, a teaching given explicitly, to which the faithful are expected to adhere. Well, Joseph Smith spoke of it in that ways, certainly: so polygamy certainly was an early doctrine of the CoJCoLDS.

When did Joseph Smith say this?

[_bcspace]

Since it's God-authorized practice is found in the Bible, the LDS Church, or any other Christian church, cannot be true without such a doctrine.

How do you know it's God-authorized?

When the Lord says it is. Amos 3:7

What you need to remember is the Bible tells us God loves everyone, if this is the case why would he expect woman to submit to polygamy? We know from what history has told us that these were really not happy woman.

I think your reading of history is selective.

So does God want these woman to be unhappy and this is how he shows them he loves them? Polygamy makes no sense to me.

By your logic here, even monogamous marriage is not a good thing.

[_Phaedrus Ut]

If Smith's revelations to "restore" polygamy were proven false, how would it affect the LDS church as a whole?

Several members of this board any many members of the church have expressed disdain over polygamy. If it were proven false, how would it affect members?

I'd suppose many would pardon it on the grounds that Smith was a prophet and since polygamy is no longer expected by the leaders. In other words members must put more faith in Smith than Christ.

There is really no way to prove his revelations false. It's really unknowable what he may or may not have recieved from God. And considering Mormonism is claiming lineage and authority back to the prophets of the Hebrew Bible, polygamy would be a viable option.

I think the large Achilles heal of the church are the testable claims made by the church. The Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, the Book of Mormon civilizations, the Book of Abraham fascimilies, the Book of Mormon characters, biblical quotes inside the Book of Mormon.


Phaedrus

[_Chap]

But where in the Old Testament is the practice of having more than one wife taught as a 'doctrine'?

Who says it must be explicitly taught in the Bible? However, among others, we do have David's example wherein we see that God -authorized his plural marriages 2 Samuel 12:7-11.

It certainly seems to have happened amongst the ancient Jews, but then so did a lot of other things that the deity portrayed in the Old Testament evidently did not like at all. The most one can say is that he does not seem to have been very bothered about it one way or another.

A better way to think of it is to note that God authorized it then, so what is His will now?

I don't dispute that the deity of the Old Testament does not act or speak as if he thinks polygamy is wrong. But is there anywhere where he says you have to do it?

Surely the distinctive LDS doctrine taught by Joseph Smith (and by Brigham Young) is that polygamy is not only allowed, but obligatory - a commandment from their deity in order to be sure of the highest degree of exaltation.

Can you show an example of the Old Testament deity even showing signs of being interested in whether someone has one wife or several? I can't recall that off-hand.

The stress on the importance, indeed necessity, of polygamy appears to me to be an innovation that began with Joseph Smith. Can you show otherwise?