Judge in FLDS case walks off the bench;

[_bcspace]

Why do some apologists give the FLDS a free pass because their sexual abuse is based in religion?

Which apologists are doing that? Is it wrong to ask where are the sexual abuse cases in the recent Texas raid? As I recall, they were down to one or two possibilities. Have they panned out?

[_truth dancer]

This does not appear to be the case here according to the Texas Supreme Court. And I daresay that nationwide, a significant number of cps takings are not justified.

The problem was not that there was not abuse, but that each situation was not dealt with individually. And, yes this is a problem.

Having said this, I think it was impossible to protect the children who were/are in danger given the FLDS, dishonesty, and living situations.

I did not read anything suggesting the homes of the FLDS on the YFZ ranch were abuse free. In fact I feel fairly certain ALL the judges would agree there is systematic abuse on the compound. The problem was how it was managed. Evidently there are no laws that allowed CPS to intervene as they did under these extraordinary circumstances.

As I said, my guess is there are some children who are not in immediate harm, but how in the world would CPS figure that out if parents are lying, shredding documents, taking the fifth, giving false names, and making up stories, or if they all picked up and left the state or the country?

And, to reiterate, we are not just talking about a handful of men who rape girls. We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators. We are talking about all the children in homes of sexual predators. We are talking about all the siblings of girls whose parents allowed, even facilitate and promote their sexual abuse. We are talking about adults who aide and abet the crime of child sexual abuse. Sexual child abuse is a felony IRRC.

It is not the case that there is one or two guys who are sexual perverts who can just leave the compound and all will be well. We have a whole community who is participating in the widespread sexual abuse of children.

Of the thousands and thousands of CPS cases in this country each year are there a handful of mistakes where children are removed needlessly? Probably. There are also cases where children should have been removed but there isn't enough evidence for their removal and children end up dying. No system or person is perfect. There are lots of judgment calls and not all cases are clear cut. Working for Child Protective Services is not an easy job for sure, there are often no easy answers. I hope no one is suggesting CPS workers randomly or without reason take children away from their parents.

in my opinion, CPS did the only thing they could have under the circumstances. While they may not have individually evaluated each specific situation, I think it unconscionable to have left these children in homes where sexual predators live, and where parents systematically allow their children to be sexually abused.

~dancer~

[_harmony]

We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators.

In the FLDS world, girls are commodities, not daughters. They are born only to please the leaders. They have no other purpose. They are not people with dreams and ideas and an inner goodness completely disconnected to any man. They are chattel, pure and simple, like dogs or cattle.

May God have mercy on the men and women who condone this, because I truly hope the state of Texas will have none.

[_Mercury]

We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators.

In the FLDS world, girls are commodities, not daughters. They are born only to please the leaders. They have no other purpose. They are not people with dreams and ideas and an inner goodness completely disconnected to any man. They are chattel, pure and simple, like dogs or cattle.

May God have mercy on the men and women who condone this, because I truly hope the state of Texas will have none.

Its multi generational white slavery

[_The Nehor]

We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators.

In the FLDS world, girls are commodities, not daughters. They are born only to please the leaders. They have no other purpose. They are not people with dreams and ideas and an inner goodness completely disconnected to any man. They are chattel, pure and simple, like dogs or cattle.

May God have mercy on the men and women who condone this, because I truly hope the state of Texas will have none.

Hyperbole?

[_harmony]

We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators.

In the FLDS world, girls are commodities, not daughters. They are born only to please the leaders. They have no other purpose. They are not people with dreams and ideas and an inner goodness completely disconnected to any man. They are chattel, pure and simple, like dogs or cattle.

May God have mercy on the men and women who condone this, because I truly hope the state of Texas will have none.

Hyperbole?

An unfortunate reality.

[_The Nehor]

We are talking about mothers and fathers who allow their daughters to be raped, and adults who raise their children in homes with known sexual predators.

In the FLDS world, girls are commodities, not daughters. They are born only to please the leaders. They have no other purpose. They are not people with dreams and ideas and an inner goodness completely disconnected to any man. They are chattel, pure and simple, like dogs or cattle.

May God have mercy on the men and women who condone this, because I truly hope the state of Texas will have none.

Hyperbole?

An unfortunate reality.

How can you tell that they are treated solely like commodities? Have you met some that do? I'm just saying that this statement and the leap towards slavery that follows are emotionally charged accusations that amount to guesses. Yes, there were horrible things happening but assuming that means that more horrible things are happening is kinda twisted.

[_harmony]

How can you tell that they are treated solely like commodities? Have you met some that do? I'm just saying that this statement and the leap towards slavery that follows are emotionally charged accusations that amount to guesses. Yes, there were horrible things happening but assuming that means that more horrible things are happening is kinda twisted.

I live on a farm. We pen up our cows so they can't escape. We kennel our dogs so they don't roam the neighborhood at night. Our best young heifers are auctioned off to the highest bidders. We make sure only prize bulls and studs mate with our cows and bitches, so the offspring is marketable.

I don't see how what the FLDS do with their daughters is much different. They live in compounds behind walls; they have no contact with the outside world. The daughters are not educated; they cannot attend college. They cannot have a career. The daughters are given to the highest ranking man who will have them. Their only value is as sex objects and mothers for the leaders of the compound. They have no intrinsic value of their own. Their only value is who they are related to and who is the highest bidder for their womb.

Sounds like a bitch of a life, to me.

[_The Nehor]

How can you tell that they are treated solely like commodities? Have you met some that do? I'm just saying that this statement and the leap towards slavery that follows are emotionally charged accusations that amount to guesses. Yes, there were horrible things happening but assuming that means that more horrible things are happening is kinda twisted.

I live on a farm. We pen up our cows so they can't escape. We kennel our dogs so they don't roam the neighborhood at night. Our best young heifers are auctioned off to the highest bidders. We make sure only prize bulls and studs mate with our cows and bitches, so the offspring is marketable.

I don't see how what the FLDS do with their daughters is much different. They live in compounds behind walls; they have no contact with the outside world. The daughters are not educated; they cannot attend college. They cannot have a career. The daughters are given to the highest ranking man who will have them. Their only value is as sex objects and mothers for the leaders of the compound. They have no intrinsic value of their own. Their only value is who they are related to and who is the highest bidder for their womb.

Sounds like a bitch of a life, to me.

Again, guesses and rather intense cynicism. While I have no doubt that many of the leaders are exploiting the organization the idea that everyone is in on it is ridiculous. Is it possible that some of the people believe their society is good and right and teach it to their children out of love for them? Maybe they don't think their girls are chattel and would be offended that you think that is how they view them?

[_James Clifford Miller]

How can you tell that they are treated solely like commodities? Have you met some that do? I'm just saying that this statement and the leap towards slavery that follows are emotionally charged accusations that amount to guesses. Yes, there were horrible things happening but assuming that means that more horrible things are happening is kinda twisted.

I live on a farm. We pen up our cows so they can't escape. We kennel our dogs so they don't roam the neighborhood at night. Our best young heifers are auctioned off to the highest bidders. We make sure only prize bulls and studs mate with our cows and bitches, so the offspring is marketable.

I don't see how what the FLDS do with their daughters is much different. They live in compounds behind walls; they have no contact with the outside world. The daughters are not educated; they cannot attend college. They cannot have a career. The daughters are given to the highest ranking man who will have them. Their only value is as sex objects and mothers for the leaders of the compound. They have no intrinsic value of their own. Their only value is who they are related to and who is the highest bidder for their womb.

Sounds like a bitch of a life, to me.

Again, guesses and rather intense cynicism. While I have no doubt that many of the leaders are exploiting the organization the idea that everyone is in on it is ridiculous. Is it possible that some of the people believe their society is good and right and teach it to their children out of love for them? Maybe they don't think their girls are chattel and would be offended that you think that is how they view them?

First, it's such a tiny community on that compound in Texas, it is simply impossible for any FLDS not to know about the underage abuse. It is ridiculous to pretend that everyone is NOT in on it.

Second, no it is NOT possible that some in Texas teach underage sexual abuse to their children out of love for them. The FLDS Jeffs handpicked for Texas are those who truly believe Jeff's teachings that families no longer exist, and that children do NOT belong to their parents, but to the priesthood under Jeffs. Were you aware that he taught that? Many of the children do not even KNOW who their parents are. Were you aware of that? In fact, Jeffs took children away from their parents in Utah, Arizona, and British Columbia and sent them -- WITHOUT THEIR PARENTS -- to the Texas compound. If you truly loved your child, would you willingly give up that child to the church? What kind of love for your child results in that child not knowing who his or her parents are?

Nahor, I don't think you are very knowledgeable about what goes on in the compound in Texas. As another example, were you aware that the children were not allowed to play? They were either working or praying and never playing. There are no indoor toys or outdoor playthings in the compound. Were you aware of that? I ask how much love for a child can a parent have who won't allow the child to play.

James Clifford Miller