How does the LDS church get away with it?

[_bcspace]

I believe the Church is technically correct in it's statements, but I do believe that we should not be ashamed of our doctrine. However, I consider the way this doctrine is dragged through the mud gives reason for us to be so technical. Perhaps the (so far) happy result of the FLDS situation will go a long way towards and even happier result.

What result are you referring to and why would it make it an even happier one?

The repeal of anti plural marriage laws.

[_truth dancer]

As most people don't accept polygamy for the dead, I really don't see what you want them to say. Maybe: "the FLDS is a breakaway sect from the Mormon church that renounced polygamy among the living over a century ago. They insist that dead people can still be polygamous though. Legislation is pending to end this foul practice."

I am talking about polygamy for the living; a man spiritually married to multiple women at the same time, just like the FLDS.

What do I want them to say? How about some honesty.

The LDS church didn't denounce polygamy (spiritual marriage). Are you kidding? They still believe in it, practice it, and embrace it as God's will.

The LDS church teaches a man will (can) have a harem in heaven. Most LDS I know believe God is a polygamist. And in LDS scriptures it is clear that people must believe in polygamy to receive eternal life (CKHL).

I just tire of the disingenuousness of the LDS church.

~dancer~

[_truth dancer]

However, I consider the way this doctrine is dragged through the mud gives reason for us to be so technical. Perhaps the (so far) happy result of the FLDS situation will go a long way towards and even happier result.

What is happy about this? To answer Inc...

The children will now be monitored by decent social workers who can make sure the children are safe.

The girls will not be able to be removed outside Texas to disappear into oblivious and continue becoming sex slaves to older sexual predators.

The teenage boys will have some support and will not be kicked out and left on the streets, uneducated and cared for.

The children will be placed with actual families (at least as much as possible) and social workers can monitor which children are being taken care of by their parents. Perhaps this will encourage fathers to actually take care of their children.

Many families are leaving the compound.

Most likely mothers and children won't be "reassigned" to other men, so children may have a chance to know and bond with their fathers.

CPS can monitor the children, unannounced any time from 8 am to 8 pm, administer psychological or medical tests upon their discretion, and basically keep tabs on the children.

Hopefully at least some of the mothers and fathers will reconsider some of their inappropriate behavior towards their children. They are required to take parenting classes which I think will be enormously helpful.

I'm hopeful some fathers will take an interest in their children.

I think some of the young men who most likely would become a child sexual predator will now not engage in rape.

The FLDS members in Texas cannot disturb, and must cooperate with ongoing investigations of the sexual predators.

The children have had a taste of normalcy and most likely know there are people who can protect them. At the very least the lies that gentiles are evil will be confronted, even if subconsciously.

All in all, this is a LOT better than the situation in which the children existed two months ago.

~dancer~

[_The Nehor]

As most people don't accept polygamy for the dead, I really don't see what you want them to say. Maybe: "the FLDS is a breakaway sect from the Mormon church that renounced polygamy among the living over a century ago. They insist that dead people can still be polygamous though. Legislation is pending to end this foul practice."

I am talking about polygamy for the living; a man spiritually married to multiple women at the same time, just like the FLDS.

What do I want them to say? How about some honesty.

The LDS church didn't denounce polygamy (spiritual marriage). Are you kidding? They still believe in it, practice it, and embrace it as God's will.

The LDS church teaches a man will (can) have a harem in heaven. Most LDS I know believe God is a polygamist. And in LDS scriptures it is clear that people must believe in polygamy to receive eternal life (CKHL).

I just tire of the disingenuousness of the LDS church.

~dancer~

I have never heard the word harem used by anyone in the Church referring to Eternal Marriage. That's throwing your emotionally charged term in there.

Denounce: (one definition) to announce formally the termination of

I think that fits what the LDS did.

[_truth dancer]

I have never heard the word harem used by anyone in the Church referring to Eternal Marriage. That's throwing your emotionally charged term in there.

I do not consider harem an emotionally charged word. It is the only word I know that describes the lifestyle of one man married to one women with multiple women on the side living communally with all their children.

The LDS church and now the FLDS church deny men are married to multiple women, however they are "spiritually married" to multiple women... so what does one call this lifestyle embraced by both the LDS and FLDS? Should we call the women concubines? Mistresses? What?

This lifestyle is not anything like a marriage, it is a communal lifestyle where many women "attach" to one man.

The LDS church formally announced the termination of polygamy but we all know it didn't stop, and still continues today (albeit somewhat less obviously). The practice/principle has changed over the years but it alive and well. Again, just ask the women who can't get a sealing cancellation after a divorce while their X is remarried. Just ask the women who are the second wife of men whose X hasn't had a sealing cancellation.

There is no way the LDS church can honestly say they do not embrace polygamy, that it doesn't exist in the LDS church, and that it is an eternal principle in their belief system.

Or course they don't say any of the above... they just say that they have announced its termination, not that it is actually terminated.

~dancer~

[_TAK]

As most people don't accept polygamy for the dead, I really don't see what you want them to say. Maybe: "the FLDS is a breakaway sect from the Mormon church that renounced polygamy among the living over a century ago. They insist that dead people can still be polygamous though. Legislation is pending to end this foul practice."

A more accurate version would be:

“the FLDS is a breakaway sect from the Mormon church that suspended polygamous marriages but still hold the practice to be sacred and believe righteous males may have more than one wife in the next life. "

[_The Nehor]

I have never heard the word harem used by anyone in the Church referring to Eternal Marriage. That's throwing your emotionally charged term in there.

I do not consider harem an emotionally charged word. It is the only word I know that describes the lifestyle of one man married to one women with multiple women on the side living communally with all their children.

The LDS church and now the FLDS church deny men are married to multiple women, however they are "spiritually married" to multiple women... so what does one call this lifestyle embraced by both the LDS and FLDS? Should we call the women concubines? Mistresses? What?

This lifestyle is not anything like a marriage, it is a communal lifestyle where many women "attach" to one man.

The LDS church formally announced the termination of polygamy but we all know it didn't stop, and still continues today (albeit somewhat less obviously). The practice/principle has changed over the years but it alive and well. Again, just ask the women who can't get a sealing cancellation after a divorce while their X is remarried. Just ask the women who are the second wife of men whose X hasn't had a sealing cancellation.

There is no way the LDS church can honestly say they do not embrace polygamy, that it doesn't exist in the LDS church, and that it is an eternal principle in their belief system.

Or course they don't say any of the above... they just say that they have announced its termination, not that it is actually terminated.

~dancer~

I think calling the women you're married to wives works. Not sure why you need these terms. You have harem which implies a coterie of sex slaves and concubines suggesting a caste system which some wives are lower on or mistresses which suggests an unmarried state.

[_truth dancer]

I think calling the women you're married to wives works.

The FLDS women are saying they are NOT wives of the fathers of their children. Just like Joseph Smith claimed he had only one wife. Just like the current LDS church says men are not married to multiple (currently alive) women even though some men definitely are spiritually sealed to more than one women.

Not sure why you need these terms. You have harem which implies a coterie of sex slaves and concubines suggesting a caste system which some wives are lower on or mistresses which suggests an unmarried state.

Well one could most definitely argue for a caste system regarding the wives. No question about this. Whether women in this sytem are called mistresses, concubines, or women on the side makes no difference It is what it is.

You may consider a harem a "coterie of sex slaves and concubines" I consider it a way of life where one man has/owns multiple women. Yes polygyny fits the bill. Precisely.

~dancer~

[_bcspace]

What is happy about this? To answer Inc...

That is not a happy situation at all as no evidence has been forthcomming to warrant this.

[_The Nehor]

I think calling the women you're married to wives works.

The FLDS women are saying they are NOT wives of the fathers of their children. Just like Joseph Smith claimed he had only one wife. Just like the current LDS church says men are not married to multiple (currently alive) women even though some men definitely are spiritually sealed to more than one women.

Not sure why you need these terms. You have harem which implies a coterie of sex slaves and concubines suggesting a caste system which some wives are lower on or mistresses which suggests an unmarried state.

Well one could most definitely argue for a caste system regarding the wives. No question about this. Whether women in this sytem are called mistresses, concubines, or women on the side makes no difference It is what it is.

You may consider a harem a "coterie of sex slaves and concubines" I consider it a way of life where one man has/owns multiple women. Yes polygyny fits the bill. Precisely.

~dancer~

As opposed to monogamy where the man has/owns only one wife?