More on the Financing of Mopologetics

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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

harmony wrote:Do the apologists think that if the fact that they get paid gets out to their public that somehow that dilutes their message? Or is it tied to the "no paid clergy" thing, which we all know is a crock? Or is it simply because if it's generally known that they are paid, then the expectation would be that their apologetics would actually have some substance, and they know they do not? Or is because they want to be seen as generous, to a group that is not known for its generosity outside of the mandated tithing? Or is it somehow tied to the idea that they, as apologists, are setting doctrine, not the prophet?


I think it's all of the above, Harmony. It *is* very strange that they are so uncomfortable about it being known that they receive remuneration for their activities. But, the fact is (given the reactions to these threads by the likes of LoaP and Coggins/Droopy) that they---i.e., the apologists---have wanted to perpetuate this myth, and many TBMs have wanted to believe it. I do very much think it is somewhat akin to the "no paid clergy" thing. They want to make it seem as if they are Noble Crusaders for the Lord's Work. They reality is that this is a snowballing monstrosity, and that they are employing professional fund-raisers to help feed The Beast. It really is kind of astonishing how careful they've been to "bury" the finances in such a way that it seems that they are not actually getting paid by the institutional Church. Although, as we all know, in a certain sense, they *are* getting paid by the LDS Church.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Remember everyone: Research is free, and so is printing, editing, publishing, mailing, and web resources. And paper.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

moksha wrote:Since the apologists do not get paid, this fundraising money could only mean one thing: An unending supply of donuts for all at the Maxwell Institute, including all those covert operations specialists with their server farms and monitoring arrays down in the basement of the Maxwell. Even as we speak, they are monitoring our keystrokes and waiting, just waiting to somehow disrupt our communications.


Oh yeah, baby. Kishkumen Kreme.

Word.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:Remember everyone: Research is free, and so is printing, editing, publishing, mailing, and web resources. And paper.


I thought those expenses, with the possible exception of research, were paid by BYU. Isn't that the overhead Daniel said was covered by BYU? So that's not what Scratch is talking about, Life.

And the idea of paying for research? Why? If apologetics really is hobby for the apologists, and they aren't paid to do it, then why is the idea of them doing their own research on their own time and their own dime so farfetched?

Nice try, but I think you've missed the mark.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

harmony wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote:Remember everyone: Research is free, and so is printing, editing, publishing, mailing, and web resources. And paper.


I thought those expenses, with the possible exception of research, were paid by BYU. Isn't that the overhead Daniel said was covered by BYU? So that's not what Scratch is talking about, Life.

And the idea of paying for research? Why? If apologetics really is hobby for the apologists, and they aren't paid to do it, then why is the idea of them doing their own research on their own time and their own dime so farfetched?

Nice try, but I think you've missed the mark.


Yes, he has, which is ironic given his penchant for accusing others of distortion and mis-reading (something he no doubt picked up from DCP). Instead, it seems that a project is underway to increase the size and spending power of Mopologetics. DCP probably tells the faithful at MAD that he's heading out to "speak at a fireside," or whatever, but that's only half the truth---according to "Kathleen", anyhow. The other half is that he is conducting massive fund-raising activities.
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

harmony wrote:I thought those expenses, with the possible exception of research, were paid by BYU. Isn't that the overhead Daniel said was covered by BYU? So that's not what Scratch is talking about, Life.


If BYU is like most other large universities today, then the Neal Maxwell Institute will be very low on their budget priorities. I don't care how much good they do for the Church. Most university funding favors programs outside of the Humanities, and I can't imagine the NMI being much different. My bet is that the Institute finds it necessary to solicit many of their funds from donors, and probably because the powers that be know there are donors who will willingly donate to help the LDS scholarship and apologetic efforts. And, I should reiterate, many of the people who do work and donate do so out of conviction that they are doing the right thing. I am sure there are more profitable endeavors to sink one's time and money into.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

"Massive"? "Sneaking"?

A "mysterious" and "clandestine" fundraiser?

LOL.

Put the tin foil hat back on, Scratch. And get back under your table. The men in the black helicopters might spot you, otherwise.

Yes, and what's even more intriguing is the fact that they apparently pay to fly DCP and this mysterious "fundraiser" out to various parts of the country in order to try and drum up donations. I have a dear friend who has worked for many years in university fundraising, and this sort of thing seems rather atypical.

Sending fundraisers out accompanied by deans, department chairs, or selected others who are judged useful is absolutely par for the course in university fundraising.

And no, the Church does not pay for the paper for books, nor for their printing, nor for their binding, etc. The Church also didn't pay anything toward the filming, editing, etc., of the two Journey of Faith films. Nor has the Church paid for the Dead Sea Scrolls database that we've produced and on which we continue to work. And the Church doesn't pay for web design or book design, either.

We have to raise money for the Middle Eastern Texts Initiatve (METI), for our digitizing activities in Petra, the Vatican, Guatemala, Herculaneum, etc. The Church doesn't pay the salary of my full-time METI managing editor, either.

So, yes, I'm sometimes involved in fundraising.

And, yes, I'm a paid Mopologist hack. I've made $50-100 in exceptionally lucrative years.

In the end, I believe this constitutes yet another bit of evidence that the Church is paying for apologetics.

Oh yes indeed. The fact that the Maxwell Institute seeks donations from private persons and private foundations demonstrates beyond question that the Church is paying for apologetics.

Impeccable reasoning.

Of course, it is happening in the sneaking, "end around" way that we witnessed during the Mark Hoffman episode

Vintage Scratch malarky.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Image

here come the black suburbans
1, 2, and 3
here come the black suburbans
looking after me
and I see myself reflected in their tinted windows
and I smile
I feel so safe when they're around me
I really hope they stay a while

they got the secret numbers
they got the skeleton key
they got a tap on my telephone line
finally someone listens to me
and every night I hear 'um
as they crawl around inside of my walls
I guess I must've been suspicious
or else a neighbor tipped 'um off
http://www.free-lyrics.org

and if you're feeling lonely
like just another so and so
write a letter to anyone
they'll be looking through your mail, you know

here come the black suburbans
1, 2, and 3
here come the black suburbans
looking after me
and I see myself reflected in their tinted windows
and I smile
I feel so safe when they're around me
I really hope they stay a while
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_antishock8
_Emeritus
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Post by _antishock8 »

Daniel Peterson wrote:So, yes, I'm sometimes involved in fundraising.

And, yes, I'm a paid Mopologist hack. I've made $50-100 in exceptionally lucrative years.


Well, at least he admits to fundraising (which he never bothered to offer up before), and he admits to being a paid hack.

Mr. Peterson. How much is your BYU salary?
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Daniel Peterson
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Post by _Daniel Peterson »

antishock8 wrote:Well, at least he adits to fundraising (which he never bothered to offer up before),

Was the issue ever raised before?

Of course I "admit" to occasional fundraising. Seeking to raise donated funds to support the continued functioning of a non-profit foundation is scarcely shameful.

antishock8 wrote:Mr. Peterson. How much is your BYU salary?

LOL. The size of my salary is none of your business, just as the size of your allowance is none of mine.
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