Sethbag wrote:I recall when my wife actually started an argument with me over a yellow shirt I had been wearing. She was afraid I wasn't being respectful by rejecting the white shirt cultural mandate. She wanted me to just blend in with all the other guys, and was angry with me for being "rebellious" by wearing a shirt that was actually (gasp!) colored.
You essentially told us how your wife feels about it now, but what was your rejoinder, and how did the argument end, at the time?
My rejoinder was that white shirts were not part of the Gospel, that nobody could demonstrate from the scriptures any justification for the mandate, and that it was just the traditions of man, which were of at most minor consequence to me. I may have calmed her down by wearing a white shirt for a week or two, but it didn't last.
That's not to say I've never worn white shirts to church. I had white shirts as well as colored shirts over the years, and I wore whatever I felt like wearing. It's just that back in my young days I don't think the whole "white shirt required" attitude had really achieved anything like a critical mass within the church, so I wore one just because I had it, not because I needed to. I think I'd already been married for ten years or so before I really became aware of any kind of mandate or cultural expectation of white shirts only. And when I did become aware of it, I thought it was stupid. Like the unwritten taboo amongst many old-school Mormons against taking the sacrament with their left hands.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:So Keith Hilbig presided over my missionary efforts while I wore that non-standard tie, which can only be seen as the pre-cursor to the "rebelliousness" that later led to the yellow shirt (and the various blue shirts and whatnot that I've had over the years as well) incident, which was clearly a milestone on my road to apostasy.
There is a good framework in Mormon minds for extending the fable as you suggest. My MP's wife liked to say that you cannot tell what kind of missionary you are until you've been home for many years. If you commit great sin or leave the Church, well that show everybody that you were sucky missionary as well.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
Sethbag wrote:So Keith Hilbig presided over my missionary efforts while I wore that non-standard tie, which can only be seen as the pre-cursor to the "rebelliousness" that later led to the yellow shirt (and the various blue shirts and whatnot that I've had over the years as well) incident, which was clearly a milestone on my road to apostasy.
There is a good framework in Mormon minds for extending the fable as you suggest. My MP's wife liked to say that you cannot tell what kind of missionary you are until you've been home for many years. If you commit great sin or leave the Church, well that show everybody that you were sucky missionary as well.
Wow. That's pretty disturbing. My wife has actually made disparaging remarks about my missionary service on no other evidence than my present attitude toward the church. If I don't believe in the Prophets and whatnot now, I can only have been a rebellious and disobedient, bad-attitude missionary then too. Actually I was dyed-in-the-wool as a believer back then. I took it very seriously, and studied the scriptures a lot, and believed it all.
Mormonism ceased being a compelling topic for me when I finally came to terms with its transformation from a personality cult into a combination of a real estate company, a SuperPac, and Westboro Baptist Church. - Kishkumen
Sethbag wrote:So Keith Hilbig presided over my missionary efforts while I wore that non-standard tie, which can only be seen as the pre-cursor to the "rebelliousness" that later led to the yellow shirt (and the various blue shirts and whatnot that I've had over the years as well) incident, which was clearly a milestone on my road to apostasy.
There is a good framework in Mormon minds for extending the fable as you suggest. My MP's wife liked to say that you cannot tell what kind of missionary you are until you've been home for many years. If you commit great sin or leave the Church, well that show everybody that you were sucky missionary as well.
Wow. That's pretty disturbing. My wife has actually made disparaging remarks about my missionary service on no other evidence than my present attitude toward the church. If I don't believe in the Prophets and whatnot now, I can only have been a rebellious and disobedient, bad-attitude missionary then too. Actually I was dyed-in-the-wool as a believer back then. I took it very seriously, and studied the scriptures a lot, and believed it all.
But Sethbag you were just trying to be dyed in the wool. No doubt honestly trying but if you had that real thing then you would be a white shirt natural. I mean it is obvious. People who do not fit in show up by experienceing a strang hunger for colored shirts. It is hard to pin down just why this works.
But me I do not own a white shirt anymore. I prefer dark blue or brown, sometimes red for church. I involuntarily think white shirts look funerial. (or used car salesmansy, oh my forgive me all of you honest decent car salesmen) Or more simply put white shirts look bleak. pasty. cardboard.
But these images just mark me as one not part of the true Mormon root.
So if you are sitting in LDS church and find yourself wearing color know that you have been marked by your own desires.
In the preexistence you snuck out back looking for an exit or some such foolery.
Sethbag wrote:I recall when my wife actually started an argument with me over a yellow shirt I had been wearing. She was afraid I wasn't being respectful by rejecting the white shirt cultural mandate. She wanted me to just blend in with all the other guys, and was angry with me for being "rebellious" by wearing a shirt that was actually (gasp!) colored.
You essentially told us how your wife feels about it now, but what was your rejoinder, and how did the argument end, at the time?
My rejoinder was that white shirts were not part of the Gospel, that nobody could demonstrate from the scriptures any justification for the mandate, and that it was just the traditions of man, which were of at most minor consequence to me.
And look where that attitude got you. You are now an angry apostate. Your example may show up as a story in an Aaronic Priesthood manual, probably in the chapter on Obedience. "Once there was a faithful young man named Sethbag. He knew the church was true and had the gospel in his life. Then one day he decided it was not important to wear a white shirt.....yada yada yada...and because Sethbag failed to be obedient to even the most minor of commandments, he fell away from the church." The teacher should now bear his testimony on the importance of following the counsel of the brethren in all things.
"We of this Church do not rely on any man-made statement concerning the nature of Deity. Our knowledge comes directly from the personal experience of Joseph Smith." - Gordon B. Hinckley
"It's wrong to criticize leaders of the Mormon Church even if the criticism is true." - Dallin H. Oaks
SatanWasSetUp wrote:The teacher should now bear his testimony on the importance of following the counsel of the brethren in all things.
Have the Brethren even said this??? Or is this just being passed around from bishop to bishop as the thing to do?
I know that when I become a God, I will be so petty that I will feel disrespected if my subjects don't wear the appropriate clothing. I'll probably curse them with a sore curse.
Oh, and don't even get me started on what I'll do if my female subjects wear more than 1 pair of earrings!!!
I'm now waiting for a declaration on what kinds of socks God will accept.
If there's one thing I've learned from this board, it's that consensual sex with multiple partners is okay unless God commands it. - Abman
I find this place to be hostile toward all brands of stupidity. That's why I like it. - Some Schmo
RockHeaded wrote:This dress code thing is kind of funny, but I do remember my mother wanting myself and sisters to dress nice for church, out of respect to God because we were visiting His house. This makes sense to me? Just wanted to say that :)
Nothing wrong with that, the trouble come when only ONE style is acceptable as "dressing nice" and it's the uniform of salesmen and middle management drones.
Back in my day (just on the tip of the culture of correlation), I swear the white shirt was NOT de rigueur. Both my brothers wore coloured shirts, as did the spawn of even churchier families. The ward dentists and lawyers may have come to church in embalmed styles, but certainly not every male. Why we even had a few working class fellows who wore "nice" suits over their ombre plaid western shirts.
Bad as I thought "the church" was in my youth in many ways its gotten so much worse....
From the Ernest L. Wilkinson Diaries: "ELW dreams he's spattered w/ grease. Hundreds steal his greasy pants."
Scottie wrote: I'm now waiting for a declaration on what kinds of socks God will accept.
You laugh about socks, but when I was at BYU not wearing socks was a violation of the honor code and would get you kicked out of the testing center. On my mission, wearing argyle socks was against the rules and a sure sign of rebellion.
John Larsen wrote:You laugh about socks, but when I was at BYU not wearing socks was a violation of the honor code and would get you kicked out of the testing center.
I remember that! I was grateful to the administration for saving me from the erotic sensuality of uncovered male ankles that would have otherwise tempted me into carnal thoughts.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)