Lou Midgley: An LDS "Capo"?

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_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

antishock8 wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:
Yong Xi wrote:Where did this picture come from? Is the picture 11 years old? Midgely looks mostly dead, is he?


The picture was posted to the SHIELDS website.

Anyways, what I found so interesting in all of this is that apologists are evidently using these sort of "bullying" tactics which extend beyond the pages of FARMS Review and into real life. Now, I'm not sure whether or not Mr. Roper was fully employed by FARMS during the time that this infamous confrontation took place, but if he was, then it seems that the LDS Church is not only paying apologists, but it is paying for people to personally harass Church critics in real life. This probably helps to (further) explain why DCP and others want to downplay the financial ties between the Church and Mopologetics.


I think it's more likely they're a couple of asshats who wanted to "confront" one of the Church's biggest critics. Are they representatives of the Church in this instance? Nah... Just oafish morons who got a thrill from harrassing Ms. Tanner.


While I do not agree that they are necessarily oafish I agree that this was an isolated incidence, which by the way, happened quite a while ago, where a couple people wanted to challenge a critic of the LDS Church. And why shouldn't they? The Tanners set themselves up as prominent LDS critics. They should expect to be challenged.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:The picture was posted to the SHIELDS website.

Anyways, what I found so interesting in all of this is that apologists are evidently using these sort of "bullying" tactics which extend beyond the pages of FARMS Review and into real life. Now, I'm not sure whether or not Mr. Roper was fully employed by FARMS during the time that this infamous confrontation took place, but if he was, then it seems that the LDS Church is not only paying apologists, but it is paying for people to personally harass Church critics in real life. This probably helps to (further) explain why DCP and others want to downplay the financial ties between the Church and Mopologetics.

Paying to harass critics? One little visit to poor Sandra's anti LDS rag mill and this is paying to harass? And You have yet to establish she was harassed. You really are an idiot. Sorry. I really don't like getting personal but your obsession with this and your portrayal of it is disingenuous and dishonest.

What was Roper's role, Jason? Why was he there? Why would Lou Midgley, a seasoned professor and apologist, need the relatively inexperience Roper to accompany him on what you have characterized as "a chat"? We know that Roper wasn't needed to snap that smug photo. So why was he there?
_antishock8
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Post by _antishock8 »

http://www.localnews8.com/Global/story. ... enu554_2_3

Maybe that guy was the mysterious "fundraiser". :D
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Jason Bourne wrote:
antishock8 wrote:I think it's more likely they're a couple of asshats who wanted to "confront" one of the Church's biggest critics. Are they representatives of the Church in this instance? Nah... Just oafish morons who got a thrill from harrassing Ms. Tanner.

While I do not agree that they are necessarily oafish I agree that this was an isolated incidence, which by the way, happened quite a while ago, where a couple people wanted to challenge a critic of the LDS Church. And why shouldn't they? The Tanners set themselves up as prominent LDS critics. They should expect to be challenged.

But it wasn't an "isolated" incident. As Midgley himself notes, he'd been around to chat with S. Tanner before, and had been haranguing her on the phone. Furthermore, we have seen instances of the "gang" mentality in exchanges between apologists and critics, thanks to the "Skinny-L" list, which is used to pass along gossip about critics, and which is, I believe, used as a staging grounds for these verbal assaults on critics like Sandra Tanner.

It's all fine and good for critics to be challenged. But does it seem right for these men to go barging in to Sandra's place of business like this? Obviously, they were bellicose to the point that Gerald felt the need to toss them out. It is not as if the Tanners were barging into Midgley's classroom in order to trumpet their criticisms, right?
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

What was Roper's role, Jason?

How the hell do I know. Write him and ask.

Why was he there?

But how about I take a stab at it. Roper and Midgley are friends. This much I know. They have helped each other on apologetic issues. It was a nice day to take a drive from Provo to SLC. Maybe they went to lunch together then said "Hey, let's stop by UTLM and talk to the Tanners. Might be great fun."

Why would Lou Midgley, a seasoned professor and apologist, need the relatively inexperience Roper to accompany him on what you have characterized as "a chat"? We know that Roper wasn't needed to snap that smug photo. So why was he there?

Oh most likely it was as the role of assassin.

But in seriousness Scratchy poo, my guess is that they are chums you know. Friends. Maybe this is a hard concept for you to understand cause someone who sees black helicopters like you seem to may not have many friends. So they took a drive to put the screws to Sandra Tanner. Big frickin deal man, or woman or whatever the hell you are.
_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

Jason,

It sounds like you're saying Sandra "deserved it" or "had it coming" for writing her books. You can definitely feel the anger beneath Midgley's words, this was not a pleasant social call.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

But it wasn't an "isolated" incident. As Midgley himself notes, he'd been around to chat with S. Tanner before, and had been haranguing her on the phone.

So what. Again this is Tanner's business. Expect challanges when your lively hood is attacking another's religion.

Furthermore, we have seen instances of the "gang" mentality in exchanges between apologists and critics, thanks to the "Skinny-L" list, which is used to pass along gossip about critics, and which is, I believe, used as a staging grounds for these verbal assaults on critics like Sandra Tanner.

There is nothing at all wrong with sharing resources to coordinate defending what one believe. You seem to have an endless supply of minions that inform you of all sorts of sordid gossip.

It's all fine and good for critics to be challenged.

Yep

But does it seem right for these men to go barging in to Sandra's place of business like this?

Let me see. Store is open for business and two people stop in. Maybe they wanted to buy a book or two. Who knows?

Obviously, they were bellicose to the point that Gerald felt the need to toss them out.

Or maybe he was just a woosy who could not stand anyone challenging his beliefs or his poor little woman's beliefs.

It is not as if the Tanners were barging into Midgley's classroom in order to trumpet their criticisms, right?

Oh let me see what might be the difference here. Midgley taught economics. The Tanners have a full time rag attacking the LDS Church. Not anywhere near the same thing.

But if Midgely had and anti traditional Christianity business I would be more than happy to allow the Tanners the same opportunity to stop in and chat.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

Gadianton wrote:Jason,

It sounds like you're saying Sandra "deserved it" or "had it coming" for writing her books. You can definitely feel the anger beneath Midgley's words, this was not a pleasant social call.

All I am saying is that when you become a professional critic of something or another don't be surprised if people challenge you. I see no anger in Midgley's words at all. I have talked to Lou Midgley before. He is quite a congenial fellow. I have met Matt Roper too. He is a nice guy as well.
_Gadianton
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Post by _Gadianton »

http://www.shields-research.org/Critics/TannrIn2.htm

According to this source, there were two witnesses.
_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Jason Bourne wrote:
Furthermore, we have seen instances of the "gang" mentality in exchanges between apologists and critics, thanks to the "Skinny-L" list, which is used to pass along gossip about critics, and which is, I believe, used as a staging grounds for these verbal assaults on critics like Sandra Tanner.

There is nothing at all wrong with sharing resources to coordinate defending what one believe. You seem to have an endless supply of minions that inform you of all sorts of sordid gossip.

That may be so, but bear in mind that these guys are doing these things under the aegis of the LDS Church. And they are going about it in a very sneaky, Cosa Nostra-esque way.

But does it seem right for these men to go barging in to Sandra's place of business like this?

Let me see. Store is open for business and two people stop in. Maybe they wanted to buy a book or two. Who knows?

It is clear they meant to harass. by the way: I have discovered who the mysterious "3rd Man" was in this whole affair (and the likely operator of the camera that snapped that photo): Gary Novak. Tell me, does this seem like the sort of chap who'd stop into the Tanner's bookstore merely to "browse the wares"?:

Gary Novak wrote:If you are humor-impaired, leave immediately. This is not for the faint-of-heart, the thin-skinned, or especially humorless anti-Mormons. If you are a humorless anti-Mormon, this site is intended to mock you—I am laughing at you.

And this:

G. Novak wrote:I had some fun visiting Sandra Tanner's bookstore. I let her know about the problems with her website. But she clearly did not have a good idea of what is going on there. And I don't think she understood exactly what a secured server is. In any case I tried to explain that Utah Lighthouse Ministries may be setting themselves up for a lawsuit.

As Lou Midgley and I talked to Sandra about some other things (Mike Quinn's homosexuality and his beef with the Church and the Tanner's reliance on Quinn) Jerald showed up and kicked us out of the bookstore. The Tanner's love to brag that they don't kick anyone out. If there is any interest in this at all, please let me know and I will see about posting Lou's account of the incident.

I think it is worth noting how interested all these apologists seem in discussing Quinn's sexual orientation. Of course, as we all know, DCP tried very hard to distance himself from this subject, and he practically bent over backwards in order to try and defuse accusations of a whisper/smear campaign against Quinn. More and more, it is beginning to seem like he was misguided.

Furthermore, based on these comments, it is obvious that they were not there to purchase books. They were there to pick a fight, and to try and get themselves thrown out so that they could brag about it.

Obviously, they were bellicose to the point that Gerald felt the need to toss them out.

Or maybe he was just a woosy who could not stand anyone challenging his beliefs or his poor little woman's beliefs.

"Woosy"? Do you mean "wussy"? In any case, as has already been stated, Midgley & et. al. had been by a number of times, and he had been calling here on the telephone, etc. It seems to me that the Tanners were more than patient.

It is not as if the Tanners were barging into Midgley's classroom in order to trumpet their criticisms, right?

Oh let me see what might be the difference here. Midgley taught economics. The Tanners have a full time rag attacking the LDS Church. Not anywhere near the same thing.

To follow your analogy, in order for things to be equal, Midgley and his pals could have simply responded in print. Instead, they found it necessary to publicly confront S. Tanner, face-to-face.

Anyways, you are missing the larger picture, Jason. What we have here is some very disquieting proof of the range and extent of LDS apologetics. If you are a critic, you should be advised that these men will hunt you down, and will seek to badger and confront you in your place of business.
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