Do women follow the golden rule in romantic relationships?

[_Dr. Shades]

Ajax18:

Did you read my earlier reply? If so, what do you think of it?

[_Scottie]

Thank you Scottie. Appreciate the thought, I am with you on that - overweight is a problem but I think I was just talking about stereotypes: I am way smarter than a lot of people around me (brag-brag, sorry, couldn't help it), but it is not cool to notice that a woman is smart but it is great when she has "the looks". I was skinny and still - looks first, is it ok?

Unfortunately, stereotypes are hard to pin down. Sometimes I think that both sexes are forever stereotypes by what they were in their early 20's.

Yes, in my early 20's, looks and a hot body were all I cared about. I married an ornery (and, quite frankly, dumb) person, but damn was she hot!

Now that I'm in my mid 30's, looks and bod are not in my top "attractiveness" calculations. Sure, they are still there, but not nearly as prevelant.

Some of you older members could probably testify that the importance of looks gets lower on the priority as we get older.

Was it her lack of intelligence that bothered you Scottie or was it morality (who she was on the inside)? This bothers me a lot more than lack of intelligence. I definitely value morality and the golden rule a lot more than I would looks. I'm not saying that you can always find it. It's rare. But my idea of heavan is finding a truly Christlike person.

Oh gosh. Trying to pinpoint what the problems were is like nailing jell-o to a tree.

Also, something else to think about...

Life is very cyclical. If you watch yourself closely, you'll discover cyclical patterns. Sometimes you are very lazy for a time, then very energetic for a time. Sometimes you can't get enough sex, 2 weeks later you don't even think about it, then 2 weeks later you're libido is off the charts again.

So, as this relates to fairness, perhaps each of you are doing a fair amount of work in the relationship, but you aren't accounting for the cycles.

[_ajax18]

Okay, back to the original topic.

Judging from the theories outlined in Robin Baker's Sperm Wars: The Science of Sex, the girl you're talking about is subconsciously grooming this man so that in the future she can extort the maximum amount of resources from him in order to ensure her offsprings' survival. She will, of course, collect the sperm of the alpha male if possible, but the biological demands of human childrearing are such that she needs to find a reliable (if alternate) provider for her & her offpring's basic needs. The more resources she can obtain, by whatever means necessary, the greater the chance of her offsprings' survival.

So no, she is not following the golden rule in this relationship. Evolution simply does not select for the observance of it. Evolution selected her for whatever behavior is necessary to ensure the successful transmission of her genes, and you're merely seeing it play out in real life.

Sorry Shades, I overlooked this reply. It seems like a very in depth understanding of evolution for an English major. I guess I underestimated you. Sounds right on target to me.

[_ajax18]

I think I've found the answer to my question. I appreciate you all sharing in my little survey.

Are you going to share your answer with us?

:)

I guess it was basically, No, they don't follow the golden rule in relationships and from what TD has said, I shouldn't expect them too. I guess all is fair in love and war in the minds of most people. Dr. Shades and Antishock were right on target on this as well. They laid out the answers pretty well in their posts.

It's not how I'm going to live my life or my philosophy, but I have a better understanding of why I see such a disparity in human behavior. I still hold a Christian belief system as laid out in Matt 5-8. I buy into it and I choose to live my life that way. Granted I hold a much more legalistic interpretation than a "saved by Grace" Christian, but I think you guys have read enough of my posts to understand how I would interpret these scriptures.

[Guest]

I think I've found the answer to my question. I appreciate you all sharing in my little survey.

Are you going to share your answer with us?

:)

I guess it was basically, No, they don't follow the golden rule in relationships and from what TD has said, I shouldn't expect them too. I guess all is fair in love and war in the minds of most people. Dr. Shades and Antishock were right on target on this as well. They laid out the answers pretty well in their posts.

You're listening to two men to understand women?

Do you understand the golden rule, ajax? It is do unto others as you would have them do unto you? Would you appreciate being treated that way? If not don't do it to someone else. I don't want to be treated that way and I can't treat another human in a way that I know would hurt me.

If there is something I would find painful done to me then I shouldn't do it to another. It's fairly simple, really.

I don't think you understand the golden rule too well.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Ajax,

I guess it was basically, No, they don't follow the golden rule in relationships

I'm curious what gave you this impression.

I think most decent people have a sense of the golden rule. You seem to have an unusual sense of trying to keep score of behaviors in relationships which I think most people find very odd not to mention unhealthy.

and from what TD has said, I shouldn't expect them too.

I'm REALLY curious what gave you this impression. I feel the opposite.

I think the golden rule is a good beginning in a relationship but it is only a beginning.

Because I find your mindset that a relationship is a competition between spouses, an adversarial event where each partner keeps tally or score, odd, doesn't really speak to the teaching of the golden rule.

I guess all is fair in love and war in the minds of most people.

Who thinks this way? I sure didn't hear this on this thread.

Dr. Shades and Antishock were right on target on this as well. They laid out the answers pretty well in their posts.

With all due respect I don't think Shades or Antishock supported your theory. I'm pretty sure neither hold women in such contempt as do you. And I highly doubt they think a relationship should be some competition between spouses.

I'm getting the impression you are looking for someone to support your ideas and absent any confirmation you are twisting what is there... Or something... :-)

To be clear, I think most decent people naturally understand the golden rule and have a sense that what hurts them hurts others.

Because some men and some women do not have a sense of the golden rule, doesn't speak to women in general in relationships.

But to be clear, I don't think the problem is women, but your unusual obsession with and need for fairness.

Because the world is not fair, because relationships are dynamic, fluid, and evolving, doesn't mean most people don't do their best to be decent human beings.

~dancer~

[_ajax18]

and from what TD has said, I shouldn't expect them too.

I'm REALLY curious what gave you this impression. I feel the opposite.

You clearly stated that my problem was my obsession with fairness. What do you mean by this? I understood it to mean that my problem was that I expected fairness.

[_beastie]

Life doesn't add up to a neat tally sheet, ajax. People who negotiate relationships thinking: "this is 50-50, and I'm going to watch carefully to make sure I don't give more than 50 or get less than 50" have set up an adversarial relationship with their spouse and will NEVER be satisfied.

Human beings are notoriously unreliable in observing and measuring our own behavior, as well as unreliable in objectively evaluating the behavior of others who impact us. We are incredibly biased in our own self interest. So you will always, always, notice the times YOU give and give and give and tend to notice much less the times SHE gave and gave and gave. If an outsider interviewed each partner in a "tally sheet" relationship, the vast majority of both partners would claim to give more than 50% and attribute less than 50% to the partner. Yet this would not be logically possible. Is someone lying? Probably not. We just always notice our good acts and minimize our bad behavior.

Besides the near inability of our species to reliably observe/measure our own behavior and evaluate the behavior of others, the fact is that life and its demands aren't neat and tidy. Sometimes one partner is less capable of giving for a period of time,a and the other partner will be giving more during that period of weakness, and vice versus.

I think healthy relationships have two people who love each enough that the best interest of the other person is as important to them as their own best interest. They're not going to act in a certain way because they're "supposed to" or because they want to keep the tally sheet even. They're going to act in a certain way because they simply love the other person and are responding to that love and/or need that the person has.

Aside from how your obsession with fairness could be a problem, I also think that you are getting what you're looking for. You are looking for information/data that verifies or supports the belief you already have - that women behave badly and selfishly in relationships and take advantage of men. I suspect this belief formed in your childhood. So now you LOOK for data that backs that up, so THAT is what you notice. I suspect for each piece of data you've mentally collected that reaffirms your preexisting belief, there was at least one other piece of data that contradicted your preexisting belief that you simply did not notice.

This is not a problem unique to you, it's a problem with the entire human species and our thought processes. But being aware of it can help.

[_truth dancer]

and from what TD has said, I shouldn't expect them too.

Hi Ajax,

I'm REALLY curious what gave you this impression. I feel the opposite.

You clearly stated that my problem was my obsession with fairness. What do you mean by this? I understood it to mean that my problem was that I expected fairness.

Let me clarify...

Life is not fair. It is not always perfectly the way one thinks it should be. Healthy relationships are not a competition between partners. And no, I don't think anyone should expect to keep a tally sheet to make sure each partner is giving the exact same amount as each other at any given moment. (I find the idea very odd).

This has nothing to do with the fact that most decent people (women and men) in healthy relationships generally at a minimum follow the golden rule.

But as Beastie pointed out, I think anyone whose behavior in an intimate relationship is done to keep the tally sheet even is not in a healthy relationship, not by a long shot.

I see the golden rule mostly as a guideline to help those who may not naturally treat others well, or a declaration for who may have difficulty knowing how to behave in a particular situation. It is a beginning or a foundational principle.

In a healthy intimate relationship, the love, care, and concern for ones partner, is the motivator for behavior. The love and care eliminates the very need for a rule on how to behave.

So, no I don't think women take advantage of men any more than men take advantage of women. In healthy relationship neither takes advantage of the other, and neither is keeping score.

To be really clear, it is not that I think a man should expect unfairness ... the idea that a grown man is looking at his wife as a competitor, and keeping score of behavior is what is unusual.

And yes, I do think your obsession with fairness and your early experiences believing men were taken advantage of by women has clouded your worldview.

Hope that helps. :-)

~dancer~

[_Moniker]

I don't even get what the tally sheet has to do with the golden rule? The golden rule is essentially recognizing that it's a good rule of thumb that if you dislike something you probably shouldn't do it to another person. Yet, of course, relationships are much more complex than the simple golden rule -- for it goes off into other people may have sensitivities that may not be hurtful to you, and yet, you are aware of them and don't wish to hurt them because you care for them.

By saying women don't follow the golden rule he's essentially saying that women hurt men with no consideration of how they wouldn't appreciate the behavior. I don't see that, at all, with most of the women I've known in my life. If you go further than the simple attempts at not hurting those you love you then can go farther and try to meet other needs. Of course it's not perfectly fair in a relationship -- 2 people have different needs and desires and to make it work you compromise and talk about what you need and desire and try to meet each others needs. You do this if you love and care for someone.


I don't really understand what ajax is trying to say.