Faith, Delusions, and Knowledge...

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:28 pm

I came across this quote yesterday and thought it summed up my questions concerning faith...

"If our faith were invested in lies and delusions, how would we know?" - Gene Derig

How could anyone convince the FLDS they are mistaken?

How could anyone convince terrorists they are mistaken?

How could anyone convince a True Believer of any religion or cult they are mistaken?

It seems the very dynamics of faith do not allow the possibility for mistaken belief.

You must have faith, if you doubt you do not have faith which is a sin, so you must put your doubt and questions aside and have more faith. (sigh)

~dancer~

Post by **_John Larsen** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 4:53 pm

This is absolutely true. The first step to breaking away from the Mormon paradigm is to decide that it is even possible for it to not be true. If you never accept the proposition that something might be untrue, you will never doubt its veracity, no matter how preposterous.

Post by **_Bee Eff** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 5:05 pm

John Larsen wrote:This is absolutely true. The first step to breaking away from the Mormon paradigm is to decide that it is even possible for it to not be true. If you never accept the proposition that something might be untrue, you will never doubt its veracity, no matter how preposterous.

If you do not accept the possibility that you are in error, then you have a problem with your position. History has shown that many seemingly solid concepts are blatently false (e.g. man cannot fly, the earth is the center of existence, etc.). One should approach everything with a grain of salt and a degree of skepticism. I myself believe I could be partially or entirely wrong about religion, such allows me a more broad range of study and a less biased position during that study than most, in my opinion. The belief in an absolute understanding of anything is an Achilles heel, any person who is threatened by the possibility of error believes too strongly in an absolute understanding of anything that is not ever necessarily existent.

Post by **_bcspace** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:09 pm

"If our faith were invested in lies and delusions, how would we know?" - Gene Derig

How could anyone convince the FLDS they are mistaken?

How could anyone convince terrorists they are mistaken?

How could anyone convince a True Believer of any religion or cult they are mistaken?

Seems like atheists are in need of a God to sort it all out. lol

Post by **_truth dancer** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:13 pm

I don't know BC, God hasn't done a very good job of making it clear for believers.

;-)

~dancer~

Post by **_harmony** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:20 pm

Bee Eff wrote:
John Larsen wrote:This is absolutely true. The first step to breaking away from the Mormon paradigm is to decide that it is even possible for it to not be true. If you never accept the proposition that something might be untrue, you will never doubt its veracity, no matter how preposterous.

If you do not accept the possibility that you are in error, then you have a problem with your position. History has shown that many seemingly solid concepts are blatently false (e.g. man cannot fly, the earth is the center of existence, etc.). One should approach everything with a grain of salt and a degree of skepticism. I myself believe I could be partially or entirely wrong about religion, such allows me a more broad range of study and a less biased position during that study than most, in my opinion. The belief in an absolute understanding of anything is an Achilles heel, any person who is threatened by the possibility of error believes too strongly in an absolute understanding of anything that is not ever necessarily existent.

Bee Eff! This is the first I've seen you here! Welcome!

Post by **_moksha** » Sun Jun 15, 2008 11:31 pm

What if there was comfort and succor in delusion and pain and emptiness in stark reality?

Post by **_bcspace** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 12:24 am

I don't know BC, God hasn't done a very good job of making it clear for believers.

I think it's quite clear that it takes God to answer your questions about cconvincing.

Post by **_Gadianton** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:02 am

Scientists have been wrong, therefore religion can maintain anything it wants...

Post by **_Scottie** » Mon Jun 16, 2008 1:25 am

This is honestly something I can not fathom.

How intelligent people can look at the entire human race and see how this phenomenon exists in every religious movement. How we are right, and everyone else is wrong. And if you try and tell them they are wrong, well, that just can't be.

How incredibly arrogant do you have to be to realize that almost every human does this, but for whatever reason, YOU are the one that is right because your version of the spirit told you so. Even though this exact same argument is used by billions of others about their beliefs.

This was one thing that always disturbed me as a Mormon. Greeks honestly believed in Zeus. Sure, we laugh at how silly this is now, but why is our belief in Elohim any more ridiculous?