Lou Midgley: An LDS "Capo"?

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_EAllusion
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Post by _EAllusion »

The Dude wrote:
Here's how I see it. If you started trashing Ann Coulter in front of DCP, he would most defend her out of reflex -- without knowing too much about Coulter and what she's actually said in print. At the very least he would defend Coulter's right to link Nazi Germany with Darwin, although she does it as part of an irresponsible propaganda campaign (same as for Ben Stein). And so, once again, he would embarass himself without even knowing it.


That's possible, but I've also seem him volunteer his liking Coulter rather than simply defending an argument attributed to her. I've seen him repeatedly bust out out this technique in defense of Coulter:
Neither Ann Coulter nor Rush Limbaugh is a mere entertainer, though they are entertainers. Neither is merely a political commentator, though they comment on politics. They are, to a substantial degree, satirists. And satire includes substance.

Much of the criticism of them strikes me as remarkably misguided.
http://www.libertypages.com/clark/10807.html

It's vintage DCP.
_beastie
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Post by _beastie »

So Mr. Islam likes Coulter????

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

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_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

beastie wrote:So Mr. Islam likes Coulter????

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."


Hmm. First kill the leaders, then convert them .... WTF?

Of course ... this can only be a reference to doing their temple work for them post mortem, as was done for Hitler, Stalin, and no doubt by now Saddam Hussein.

Coulter's great plan can only be carried out by the CoJCoLDS, which alone has the power to administer such saving ordinances. No wonder DCP loves her.
_EAllusion
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Post by _EAllusion »

Chap wrote:
Hmm. First kill the leaders, then convert them .... WTF?


Heh. There's a missing comma in there. This is probably her most famous offensive comment. After 9/11, she recommended we invade all Islamic countries, topple their leaders, and convert the populace to Christianity. [/code]
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

EAllusion wrote:
Chap wrote:
Hmm. First kill the leaders, then convert them .... WTF?


Heh. There's a missing comma in there. This is probably her most famous offensive comment. After 9/11, she recommended we invade all Islamic countries, topple their leaders, and convert the populace to Christianity.


Goodness me! And DCP thinks this kind of thing is a jolly good joke?

I hope no-one spreads this around, or else Peterson's teas with Muftis and lunches with Islamic cultural attachés will come to an abrupt end.

(By the way, what is one supposed to do to ensure that (say) the entire population of Iran converts to Christianity? Drop LDS elders over Isfahan by parachute? Well, at least the mishies might get regular Army rations as part of the deal, which is better than what the poor dears get now.)
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »


It is more complicated than that, Jason.


No not really.

You see, Midgley is one of the key members of the "l-skinny" listserve group. This listserve functions as a kind of gossip site and "staging grounds" for the apologists' various attacks and assaults on critics.


I think I know more about "l-skinny" listserve group than you do and its purposes is not as as staging ground for apologists to coordinate "attacks."

Further, given Midgley's remarks on SHIELDS, it seems pretty obvious that he went to confront S. Tanner with subsequent boasting and chest-beating in mind. In other words, he wasn't just doing this for "himself."


Pure conjecture.

Rather, he was acting as a representative of a group. It's sort of like that recent fiasco involving missionary desecration of a religious site.
Sure, you can say, "Aw, this was just a couple of kids messing around." Equally, you could say, "These young men are representatives of the LDS Church, and their behavior reflects badly on Mormonism writ-large." Likewise, Midgley is a very important representative of the corps of LDS apologists.



There closest thing there is to a coordination of apologetic efforts for the Church could be FARMS. That is it. Most are just hobby aplogists in Old Testament for whatever reason they are in it.

Is he on the church payroll for apologetics's?


Probably.


Proof please?

Certainly, Matt Roper is. And he was one of the "accomplices" present during this verbal assault on Sandra Tanner.


Roper works for FARMS. But the fact that he was with Midgley has nothing to do necessarily with FARMS any more than had I joined Midgley would it relate to my employer.

Is the Church behind this "mysterious and dubious" activity that Scratch says is demonstrated by Midgley's visit to the Tanners?


Again, it's tough to say


No it is not tough to say. It is tough to say the Church was behind it or even that this was some coordinated effort by any apologetic group to harrass poor Sandra Tanner.

Certainly, the Brethren have given their nod of approval for apologetics.


So?
On the other hand, in order to avoid accountability, they have (seemingly) left the Mopologists to their own devices. So, if the Brethren are saying, "Yes, we support apologetics. You guys are great, keep up the good work. Here, you can use one of the Church's professional 'fundraisers' to help supplement the money you've raised. Carry on!" and then one or more of the apologists proceeds to engage in rank and unethical behavior w/ zero scolding from the Brethren.... Is it therefore fair to conclude that "the Church" is "behind" everything? Well.... Sort of. I would say that there is as much evidence to support my conclusions as there is to conclude that "the Church" was "behind" MMM. Obviously, the Brethren approve of apologetics, even if they aren't fully aware of the many devils in the details. But, if you are in charge of a company and your underlings are engaging in nasty and unsavory activities, you, being the Boss, still bear some of the responsibility. This is doubly so in a highly stratified and hierarchical organization such as the LDS Church.



You have no evidence Scratch. All you have it your overly active imagination and your prociliithy tyo conclude the worst on the scantiest of anecdotal stories and activities. You connect dots where there are no dotes in order to further your warped agenda. It is really as simple as that. You do this often. Your pattern is obvious.

Again, it is not my contention that one or more of the Brethren contacted Prof. Midgley and said, "Hey, Bro. Lou---we would like you to go down to the UTLM and harass Sandra Tanner. Make her look bad. Show how she's a hypocrite. Oh, and be sure you take along a couple of witnesses so that we have verification. And, be sure to fill out a report with the SCMC." I don't think that's what happened. OTOH, I do think that, either explicitly or implicitly, Midgley and other apologists have been given "the go ahead" by the Brethren to do whatever it is they choose to do.



And I think you are pretty full of the brown stuff.
_antishock8
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Post by _antishock8 »

beastie wrote:So Mr. Islam likes Coulter????

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity. We weren't punctilious about locating and punishing only Hitler and his top officers. We carpet-bombed German cities; we killed civilians. That's war. And this is war."


Probably, since that's the manner in which Muslims have historically conducted Quranic warfare, and continue to do so to this day. Thank god, that on September 11th 1638 the Battle of Vienna went the West's way.
You can’t trust adults to tell you the truth.

Scream the lie, whisper the retraction.- The Left
_EAllusion
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Post by _EAllusion »

Chap wrote:
Goodness me! And DCP thinks this kind of thing is a jolly good joke?


Well, she does a lot of making fun of Democrats/liberals and other groups that enjoy her contempt. It's oft hate-filled and dumb as hell, but there's an element of humor there. That's what DCP was talking about. When she says, ""I was going to have a few comments about John Edwards but you have to go into rehab if you use the word faggot," or "My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times Building," she's telling jokes, but unlike DCP, I don't think the people who criticize her for these sort of comments are misguided in doing so.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

Gadianton wrote:Absolutely, Scratch. Per the powerpoint model I posted, no one should ever expect to find an easy paper trail back to the brethren. Plausible deniability has carefully been built in at every step. The convenient disappearance of the 2nd watson letter and the lack of a reprint is a perfect example. Everyone in Mormonism is happy; conservative Mormons don't have to rethink their entire religion, and ultra-liberals/apologists will believe they've been given the nod to invent Mormon doctrine how they like. And the critics are left without a target. It's brilliant. There is most definitely a conspiricy in the works, but it's not like the strawman conspiricies apologists burn down. There will be no snapshots of helicopter license plates that trace back to Monson himself. That kind of conspiricy simply wouldn't work very well.


More applause and clapping from the cheer leading section. Thump, thump., thump...run for cover. The new and improved Danites are on their way.
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »

beastie wrote:Yeah, I know there's quite a bit of believer appreciation for the Pahorans and Midgleys. Believers must experience a lot of frustration in these debates, and yet still can't stay away from them. It is dismaying that believers really do view Pahoran as being usually right, and just telling it "the way it is", because "the way it is" according to Pahoran is that apostates really are the malicious, sinning liars church leaders have always said they were.

Maybe because it's late, but I can't figure out your DCP comment. You mean DCP is actually a real life fan of the real life Ann Coulter, or just in a figurative sense that he's a fan of the "in your face" Ann Coulters of the LDS apologia world???


Even when I was more TBM and a hobby apologist I found Pahoran distasteful in his approach.
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