Is homosexuality a choice?

[_Paul Kemp]

I am new to the board, and thought I would share an article I read today.
I find it very interesting and compelling, considering the recent brouhaha over gay marriage in California.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The full article can be read here:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2725,n,n

[_KimberlyAnn]

Hi, Paul. Welcome to the board.

I do not believe homosexuality is a choice.

And even if it were a choice (which it's not)--who cares? Why would it be anyone else's business?

Thanks for the link.

KA

[_rcrocket]

I'd say based upon the old Kinsey studies that decisions about whether to engage in homosexual encounters range from a matter of sheer choice to a matter of little to no choice.

As to whether those on the extreme end of the spectrum -- little to no choice -- are driven by genetic predisposition is something that has never been either proven or disproven.

[Guest]

Hi Paul,

The only bit in the article I kinda disagree with is this part:

To get round this, Savic and her colleague, Per Lindström, chose to measure brain parameters likely to have been fixed at birth.

"That was the whole point of the study, to show parameters that differ, but which couldn't be altered by learning or cognitive processes," says Savic.

The above implies that physical brain structure cannot be altered by 'learning or cognitive processes'.
...however, there is a growing body of evidence that clearly points towards the conclusion that the physical structure of the brain CAN be altered through 'learning'.

A few articles:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_a ... 554215.ece
http://www.aan.com/elibrary/neurologyto ... 6050-00008
http://www.nap.edu/html/howpeople1/ch5.html

While I don't know if the kinds of studies above are conclusive, I do think it's a little strong to say things like physical brain structure simply cannot be changed by learning or cognitive processes'. I think we already had evidence without these kinds of studies in relation to homosexuality that would deny that.

Certainly, I think it is accurate to say that MOST instances of homosexuality are inborn. From what I know, mainly due to conditions in the womb. I'm not sure genetics has much to do with it...

That said, the evidence makes it clear that it is very difficult to alter such basics as sexual orientation later in life. (Ask a straight guy whether he'd experiment with having sex with another bloke to see if he can 'change the physical structure of his brain'. My guess is he's not gonna be that interested...!)

The information in relation to depression was interesting too...


But then - as KA rightly says:

And even if it were a choice (which it's not)--who cares? Why would it be anyone else's business?

Exactly! :)

[_The Dude]

I would like to see them do this kind of study:

Take 100 small children and scan their brains like they did in this study. Then wait 20-30 years and see which ones turn out gay. Then we will see if different brain structures can truly predict an outcome for sexual orientation many years down the road.

[_John Larsen]

Since sexuality is a matter of action, there is an element of choice. This is especially true for those who self identify as bisexual. However, the evidence is overwhelming that there is a biological component that is outside of the willful control of the individual in, most likely, the majority of cases.Whatever the root causes, it appears highly unlikely that adults can change their sexual orientation, unless predisposed to bisexuality (in which case they really aren't changing anything).

[_Tarski]

I am new to the board, and thought I would share an article I read today.
I find it very interesting and compelling, considering the recent brouhaha over gay marriage in California.

The scans reveal that in gay people, key structures of the brain governing emotion, mood, anxiety and aggressiveness resemble those in straight people of the opposite sex.

The full article can be read here:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2725,n,n

Why do so few people ask the question of whether hetrosexuality is a choice or not? Does everyone think that answer to that is just obvious but not in the other case?

[_Sethbag]

Why do so few people ask the question of whether hetrosexuality is a choice or not? Does everyone think that answer to that is just obvious but not in the other case?

Agreed, and to extend that a little bit, most of the religious people I know personally, who are paranoid about a "gay agenda" to convert people to homosexuality by sprinkling a few gay characters in films and TV shows nowadays, fail to recognize or deal with the fact that gay people are just as overwhelmingly bombarded with heterosexuality in all forms of popular media nowadays, and it hasn't turned them straight. So where's the evidence that a smattering of homosexuality in popular media is going to "work" any better at converting people?

[_asbestosman]

I think there's a pro-mayonnaise agenda out there with people trying to convince me that mayo is delicious. I don't care what consenting humans eat in their private kitchens, but do they have to eat it in public? Do they have to innundate me advertisements in the media trying to promote the mayonnaise lifestyle? I find it filthy and repulsive myself. It's nothing personal. I was just born that way. I have lots of mayonnaise-munching friends. I just wish they'd use some word other than delicious to describe their relationship with mayonnaise. Maybe we could call it civil condiments and grant it the same rights as other foods which actually are delicious, but all without sullying the word which carries a great tradition behind it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I was born as a misomayonnist (one who hates mayonnaise).

[_John Larsen]

I think there's a pro-mayonnaise agenda out there with people trying to convince me that mayo is delicious. I don't care what consenting humans eat in their private kitchens, but do they have to eat it in public? Do they have to innundate me advertisements in the media trying to promote the mayonnaise lifestyle? I find it filthy and repulsive myself. It's nothing personal. I was just born that way. I have lots of mayonnaise-munching friends. I just wish they'd use some word other than delicious to describe their relationship with mayonnaise. Maybe we could call it civil condiments and grant it the same rights as other foods which actually are delicious, but all without sullying the word which carries a great tradition behind it.

Oh, and for what it's worth, I was born as a misomayonnist (one who hates mayonnaise).

I think we should attach some probes to you and have you watch some mayo porn. We can then see what your reaction is. I think you secretly yearn for mayonnaise and your repression is coming out in this undo hostility.