Lou Midgley: An LDS "Capo"?

[_rcrocket]

Why are you avoiding my questions? Let me ask you again: What influenced the universities' decisions? I'll be waiting patiently for you to enlighten me.

I am not deflected with off-topic questions.

With your argument being so "clear" and "without a doubt," yet lacking in any specifics, I bow once again to your naked unsupported rhetoric. I guess career assassination occurs simply because you and Blixa say so.

[_rcrocket]

Rollo:

It is a great difference between saying, on the one hand, that Mormon donors did not wish to fund a chair for Quinn, and on the other hand saying that some Mormon apologist has engaged in career assassination.

But, I know you can't see the difference Others can. God can.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Lou Midgley did no "public smearing" at the bookstore.

Haven't you seen that picture with a sneering Lou (and some other guy) outside the UTLM bookstore? (I think it's posted somewhere on FAIR). Or how about Lou's heckling of Grant Palmer at a public book-signing? You don't have a problem with that?

[_Trevor]

I am grown up.

It is true that you have reached and passed your physical prime.

Oh, I remember well, those folks living on dirt floors in Recife, Brazil, handing their tithing to the bishop to support the likes of you, my friend.

Maybe the LDS Church should feel more compunction about taking the money.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

It is a great difference between saying, on the one hand, that Mormon donors did not wish to fund a chair for Quinn, and on the other hand saying that some Mormon apologist has engaged in career assassination.

The hostility exhibited by such "Mormon donors" and other TBM's (cited by several school officials in the article, including Kerr), I believe, is due in large part to character assasination of Quinn. That's what you don't seem to get.

[_Trevor]

You've got to be kidding. Pray tell, why did "Mormon donors" not "support his very narrow focus"? Because he was Quinn! A man whose character had indeed been assasinated, which is why "Mormon donors" did not support his "focus." As you note, Quinn's troubles do not stem from a lack of qualifications, but TBM's hatred of the man.

And, of course, the reason that this is the case is because he was excommunicated for writing history that, while mostly accurate, did not jibe with the sugar-coated PR image of the LDS Church. This was most certainly the work of certain apostles. It was the role of apologists to fall in line, as they are wont to do, and complain about his role in the conference. But, if you want to place blame on anyone, blame the LDS apostles who motivated his excommunication proceedings in the first place. The apologists are merely acting as the lapdogs they are accustomed to being.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Let's look at your ethics, since you deride mine. You specifically contravene the basic requirements of the Honor Code so that you can "get yours" and "get what is coming to you." The sacrifice of tithe payers in Brazil to provide you an education doesn't mean much to you.

Are you making this personal with silentkid? As for Brazilians' offerings, any church that accepts gold fillings from its members to build a temple, has no right to complain about a doubting student or professor at BYU.

On occasion I'll have a BYU kid come to me and tell me he doesn't believe. I have no hesitation telling him that his continued participation in a church school with that unbelief makes a mockery of his integrity, and I urge him to get out. Your integrity is shockingly poor, and you have no basis upon which to condemn my ethics.

Hmm, no doubts or unbelief allowed at BYU -- are we talking about a university of higher learning ... or an early-morning seminary class? Last time I looked, members did not put any qualifications on their tithing donations (which, of course, the Church would never let them do anyway).

Your circumstance is no different than that of the student who decides he wants to secretly fornicate yet hold onto his church education.

Or any other student that sins, for that matter. Oh, wait, they (and we) all sin, so take away their education!

Oh, I remember well, those folks living on dirt floors in Recife, Brazil, handing their tithing to the bishop to support the likes of you, my friend.

You do? When did you ever witness impoverished members in Recife handing over tithing to the bishop?

Face it, my dear bishop, you are one sanctimonious windbag.

[Guest]

I am grown up.

Let's look at your ethics, since you deride mine. You specifically contravene the basic requirements of the Honor Code so that you can "get yours" and "get what is coming to you." The sacrifice of tithe payers in Brazil to provide you an education doesn't mean much to you.

On occasion I'll have a BYU kid come to me and tell me he doesn't believe. I have no hesitation telling him that his continued participation in a church school with that unbelief makes a mockery of his integrity, and I urge him to get out. Your integrity is shockingly poor, and you have no basis upon which to condemn my ethics.

Your circumstance is no different than that of the student who decides he wants to secretly fornicate yet hold onto his church education. Oh, I remember well, those folks living on dirt floors in Recife, Brazil, handing their tithing to the bishop to support the likes of you, my friend.

Ouch. I must of hit a nerve considering your self-righteous response. You know nothing of my integrity and only exhibit more childishness with your reply. A lawyer talking about "integrity". Priceless. Anyways, until you can tell me how much Brazilian tithing paid for my master's program at BYU, your accusations are utterly baseless. I supported my own way through my program, teaching part-time at UVSC. Also, I was a tithe payer (as well as my parents) while I was a believer, and that tithing should have been sufficient to pay for my education. Unless you can tell me how much of my education was subsidised by the tithing of others, please refrain from being such a jackass. Also, never again refer to me as friend. Your patronizing tone is pathetic. I can finally understand why so many on this board don't take you seriously.

Edited to add: My loss of belief in Mormonism had nothing to do with my ability to abide by the honor code. You'd be shocked by the number of closet disbelievers there. You must know that non-members attend BYU without a testimony-of-mormonism requirement.

[_Mister Scratch]

Why are you avoiding my questions? Let me ask you again: What influenced the universities' decisions? I'll be waiting patiently for you to enlighten me.

I am not deflected with off-topic questions.

Nice try, counselor. There is a clear and obvious reason why you won't follow the questions to their logical conclusions. What influenced the universities decisions, Bob? Could it be Quinn's scholarly record and credentials? No, that's not it, as the WSJ attests. In fact, Quinn was considered to be the leading candidate for at least one of the positions. So, what then? You have claimed that it is a result of LDS donors "disliking" him. Well, what is there to "dislike" about him? Since we have already established that their reluctance is not a function of his credentials and scholarly prowess, we have to assume that it must stem from some other aspect of his reputation. What do accounts of his reputation say?

Well, according to FARMS Review, Quinn is "dishonest" and a "bad historian" and "untrustworthy." I suppose, Bob, that you could make the case that these wealthy LDS donors likely don't read such trash as FARMS Review, but then you still wouldn't be able to account for the way that gossip travels in upper-echelon Mormon circles. Face it: Quinn has been subjected to smearing and character assassination in key LDS academic journals, and, lo and behold!, he has been unable to find academic work in the field of Mormon studies. It is easy enough to put two and two together. If you have an alternative explanation, I'm all ears.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Anyways, until you can tell me how much Brazilian tithing paid for my master's program at BYU, your accusations are utterly baseless. I supported my own way through my program, teaching part-time at UVSC. Also, I was a tithe payer (as well as my parents) while I was a believer, and that tithing should have been sufficient to pay for my education. Unless you can tell me how much of my education was subsidised by the tithing of others, please refrain from being such a jackass. Also, never again refer to me as friend. Your patronizing tone is pathetic. I can finally understand why so many on this board don't take you seriously.

I'm sure the poor folks in Brazil (or anywhere else in the world) contributed virtually nothing to your education (it's likely they have contributed more to subsidize the mall redevelopment in downtown SLC!) -- as Bob well knows, the vast bulk of tithing comes from members in North America, and if you figure the 10% you and your parents (and many of us here) have forked over, you (and we) have more than paid for our BYU education.