mg wrote:Cultural dynamics coming in to play. Doctrinal teaching? I don't think so.
Again, clinical depression demonstrates that depression is not always the result of sin.
Can be though.
Regards, MG
I think it's important, though, that this difference is emphasized. Unfortunately, I think that there are many faithful LDS members who suffer in silence with clinical depression because they feel they should be able to control it on their own. Our Stake is starting to do workshops regarding this issue, and I think that more of these types of things need to be done.
mg wrote:Cultural dynamics coming in to play. Doctrinal teaching? I don't think so.
Again, clinical depression demonstrates that depression is not always the result of sin.
Can be though.
Regards, MG
I think it's important, though, that this difference is emphasized. Unfortunately, I think that there are many faithful LDS members who suffer in silence with clinical depression because they feel they should be able to control it on their own. Our Stake is starting to do workshops regarding this issue, and I think that more of these types of things need to be done.
I agree. You have to feel for those that haven't had access to the benefits that have been a result of the current waves of change though...
Bond wrote:Depression is a disease that I believe anyone can fall into given the right circumstances and life situation. It’s not discriminatory, but instead is an equal opportunity illness. That’s what makes it truly dangerous is that symptoms can be hidden, and people can suffer without anyone knowing that something is going on.
Moniker wrote: The culture has issues, from what I've observed on the boards, with empathy and compassion.
You're exactly right, and I think that your observation plays right into what Beastie was referring to. Whether or not the teaching of depression being considered a sin is true LDS doctrine or not (it isn't, by the way), the fact remains that the LDS culture permeates that attitude, and it is often included in run of the mill teaching methods(Nehor's example is a case in point.).
I think that more communication needs to be done to emphasize the fact that depression, in and of itself, is not a sin. It is an illness which needs to be treated.
Last edited by _Yoda on Wed Jun 18, 2008 5:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Nehor wrote:I think it's a good teaching. While there are times to mourn and know sadness these should be very temporary. We are commanded to be of good cheer.
I've taught this several times in my Sunday School class. "If you're living your religion and you're not happy figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it. God will be glad to help with this process." I do usually add that feeling guilt over it is pointless. Look at it rationally and fix it and go on your way rejoicing is the tone of my advice.
While it may be caused it may be caused by sin many times it is a piddling sin like not asking God to give you happiness. The kind of sin that is easily rectified and requires no more repentance then just going to God and asking.
Could you supply your definition of depression? What is depression, Nehor?
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
The Nehor wrote:I think it's a good teaching. While there are times to mourn and know sadness these should be very temporary. We are commanded to be of good cheer.
I've taught this several times in my Sunday School class. "If you're living your religion and you're not happy figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it. God will be glad to help with this process." I do usually add that feeling guilt over it is pointless. Look at it rationally and fix it and go on your way rejoicing is the tone of my advice.
While it may be caused it may be caused by sin many times it is a piddling sin like not asking God to give you happiness. The kind of sin that is easily rectified and requires no more repentance then just going to God and asking.
Could you supply your definition of depression? What is depression, Nehor?
Let's continue to beat up on Nehor. It's so much more fun! ;)
(You know I love you, Nehor...LOL)
I think that what Nehor is referring to is self-pity. Self-pity is very different from depression. I would also be interested in Nehor's interpretation of these two terms, and how he feels about a more extensive education happening within the Church to distinguish the two.
I hope you folks don't mind that I showed up a little late in the discussion.
We've come so very far in such a short period of time in learning about and treating depression. We're coming to understand 'it' better, and more importantly, we're learning how to better treat it. We're even learning how better to prevent relapses. Science brought us this far. Not God. 'God' would have well-meaning folks 'teach' that those who suffer from depression need to 'fix' something in their lives to cure themselves of depression. That they should pray harder. Fast more often. Figure out what they're doing wrong in their lives and fix it. Etc.
These 'spiritual' suggestions for a physical problem will only perpetuate the very pain, anxiety, depression, and hopelessness that we're trying to escape.
Ask anybody who has suffered depression - not just 'feeling down' or a case of the 'ho hums' - but real depression, and real anxiety, whether or not they've been able to escape the chains of these disorders simply by choosing to 'be of good cheer' or by 'coming closer to God' or 'righting their behavior in some way' and you shouldn't be surprised by an overwhelming majority of folks who still feel depressed and anxious. And who will at some point in their lives relapse, several times.
I think it's dangerous for untrained clergy-folk people to even be allowed to make any serious attempt at treating someone who suffers from depression and anxiety. This is especially troubling within Mormonism. Folks who have no training have absolutely no business 'preaching' religious cure alls for depression and anxiety.
Another common and troubling theme is that of 'judging' folks who do suffer from depression and anxiety. By teaching that folks should simply 'find and fix' whatever the problem is in their lives, we're placing a blanket of blame over the people who are so much in need of real help.
We've found that a great majority of folks who suffer depression and anxiety have absolutely nothing to 'find and fix.' They're normal people with normal problems.
Religiously speaking, folks who suffer from depression and anxiety are often victims of habitual 'fixes' within their religion. In other words, their Preachers, Bishops, Sunday school teachers, etc. often help perpetuate the problem by suggesting solutions and practices that further the emotional damage and suffering. This 'rinse and repeat' mentality has been proven time and time again to frustrate the healing process.
I personally think that we do our society an incredible disservice by even entertaining the thought that a person isn't happy simply because God hasn't made them that way. That they simply need to 'ask God' for happiness and suddenly they'll feel happy. The Mormon God would truly be an asshole of great measure if he were to have the power to grant happiness to folks, but didn't do it simply because he wasn't asked to.
My big question to those who have this mentality is, WHAT OF THOSE WHO HAVE ASKED AND NOT RECEIVED?
No, depression and anxiety are much deeper issues. I've taken baths deeper than the Mormon God.
Depression (in the medical sense of the word) is recognised by doctors as a serious medical issue that requires to be treated as an illness. Clinical depression is a quite different thing from 'feeling depressed' in the common colloquial sense of feeling sad, or being pessimistic about one's life or career.
Depression can be treated successfully by a variety of means, including medication, which can have dramatic effects on quite severe cases.
People who tell depression sufferers that their illness is essentially the result of sin, or that it can be cured by religious means if only their 'faith' is strong enough (so that the continuance of the illness is the sufferer's fault) at best do little to help, and at worst can drive a despairing patient over the edge into suicide.
However, if your religion tells you you ought to treat sick people that way, who am I to attack your faith? God will no doubt make these people feel a lot better after they are dead.