Missionary Journal & Depression

[_Yoda]

It has been my experience instead that a person suffering from depression thinks he or she has very few options, and finds that a pastor is a place to start. Or it could be a bartender. Or a cop after a suicide attempt. I represent several religious entities and by no means do Mormon bishops have a lock on advising people about depression or do Mormons have a lock on depression due to religious onslaught.

Did anyone here specify that Mormon bishops had a "lock" on advising people? No. You're creating a strawman that doesn't exist. What has been stated is that Mormon bishops, just like other clergy, should be careful about how they counsel people, and that counseling by clergy cannot, and should not, replace professional counseling in cases of clinical depression.

Depression transcends all cultures, all philosophies, all religions. A depressed non-believing college student will blame the pressures of the university and dating. A depressed high school student (and I have dealt with them in the non-religious context) will blame the rejection of peers or an inability with the opposite sex. A depressed mom will blame a sense of failure for not working, or for not being a good mom or whatever.

There have been thousands of articles and publications on the causes and cures.

To suggest that Mormonism, and a bishop is to blame for depression is to really show outright ignorance of the causes and sources of the disease. Good luck in your quest for truth.

Again, you are creating a strawman on this thread which doesn't exist. No one is "blaming" Mormonism or Mormon bishops for causing depression. Please re-read the OP and the responses. What is being discussed is that just as there is a stigma which exists regarding depression and mental illness in society at large, this stigma is also present within the Mormon community.

What I think would be productive to discuss are possible solutions to help combat this stigma. As I previously stated, our Stake has started to do mini-workshops on the effects of depression. I think this is definitely a step in the right direction.

[_Mercury]

I think it's a good teaching. While there are times to mourn and know sadness these should be very temporary. We are commanded to be of good cheer.

I've taught this several times in my Sunday School class. "If you're living your religion and you're not happy figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it. God will be glad to help with this process." I do usually add that feeling guilt over it is pointless. Look at it rationally and fix it and go on your way rejoicing is the tone of my advice.

While it may be caused it may be caused by sin many times it is a piddling sin like not asking God to give you happiness. The kind of sin that is easily rectified and requires no more repentance then just going to God and asking.

Stop being a douche.

[_Yoda]

I think it's a good teaching. While there are times to mourn and know sadness these should be very temporary. We are commanded to be of good cheer.

I've taught this several times in my Sunday School class. "If you're living your religion and you're not happy figure out what you're doing wrong and fix it. God will be glad to help with this process." I do usually add that feeling guilt over it is pointless. Look at it rationally and fix it and go on your way rejoicing is the tone of my advice.

While it may be caused it may be caused by sin many times it is a piddling sin like not asking God to give you happiness. The kind of sin that is easily rectified and requires no more repentance then just going to God and asking.

Stop being a douche.

Your response was much more succinct than mine. LOL

[Guest]

Not measuring up? Feeling like your God hasn't answered your prayers? It's your fault (you haven't done enough yet):

23 For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.

(Book of Mormon | 2 Nephi 25:23)
___

Depressed? Unhappy? Here is the doctrinal reason:

10 Do not suppose, because it has been spoken concerning restoration, that ye shall be restored from sin to happiness. Behold, I say unto you, wickedness never was happiness.

(Book of Mormon | Alma 41:10)

You used to be unhappy and uncomfortable with sin, but because you looked for other ways to treat your depression (wickedness), you became clinically depressed. The first thing you must do on your road to recovery is go to the bishop and confess - get that fixed first. Then, if you still need one because of the deep level of your wickedness, go see a quack, er therapist.

__

..and remember:

14 And also trust no one to be your teacher nor your minister, except he be a man of God, walking in his ways and keeping his commandments.
(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 23:14)

In other words, how much help is the secular world really going to give you? None probably. Good luck.

__

How about a parental anxiety attack:

25 And again, inasmuch as parents have children in Zion, or in any of her stakes which are organized, that teach them not to understand the doctrine of repentance, faith in Christ the Son of the living God, and of baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of the hands, when eight years old, the sin be upon the heads of the parents.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 68:25)

What 8 year old has even a notion of the doctrine of Mormon repentance?
___

No pressure here:

19 And we did magnify our office unto the Lord, taking upon us the responsibility, answering the sins of the people upon our own heads if we did not teach them the word of God with all diligence; wherefore, by laboring with our might their blood might not come upon our garments; otherwise their blood would come upon our garments, and we would not be found spotless at the last day.

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 1:19)

[_Inconceivable]

(sorry for the long thread)

I confess. Just a few short years ago, I honestly believed the above verses with all of my heart. I have repented and asked for forgiveness from my family and friends.

My 3 siblings asked to be excommunicated from the church 20+ years ago. Since then, each have suffered and been treated for clinical depression. One of my dear sisters has been permanently disabled for years. My mother and I knew that it was because they had rejected the light. We understood why they had sooo many challenges. They just needed to repent so God could heal them.

But what about my mother?

She has suffered clinical depression for nearly 30+ years due to her abusive marriage and subsequent divorce from my father and the apostacy of all her children. She has been a broken over-achiever for years. She is the one that has never been properly treated. She just returned from a mission with her husband. It has been too painful for her to even communicate with me for over two years because I have forsaken her and her God and her Joseph and have been lost to Satan (the only thing giving her a thread of hope is her righteousness - see my thread from last year: http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... php?t=1742 .

She has had numerous blessings for strength to "endure" and "be strong" for her children and callings. Numerous. I gave many of them to her over the years. Hers, of course, was a different kind of depression - a righteous depression (which would be temporarilly swallowed up in assurances from her God) . And now, she's pretty much nuts. It breaks my heart that her zealotry has kept her from a healthy relationship with nearly everyone in her life for years.

Looking back, 13 years ago I suffered for a short time with deep depression due in part to a horrific event out of my control a few years previous in my life. My wife did not understand why I got so strange. I did not understand what was happening to me. My bishop surely didn't understand. Why was I "so sad" for no apparent reason? I had my eternal family. I had a good job. My children were safe. I had the truth. I was righteous. I had certainty - and yet I suffered.

Regardless of what the church thinks of themselves now, they have been nearly last to be inspired to recognize a great many things.

A flogging "F" for misunderstanding once again.

[_Inconceivable]

I appreciate your light hearted comments (occasionally), but this time you wasted a whole page+ with nothing to contribute but a diffusion of a serious and sobering subject that you, no doubt, have no interest in, respect for or knowledge of.

Please knock it off.

And to others - quit encouraging this. This is one of the reasons why so many threads end up with little to no value. Not everything is a damn joke. This is also one of the reasons why there are so few infusions of new members here at MD.

(and if you want to comment on this post, do it somewhere else - go start a new thread)

[_The Nehor]

What's disheartening, as observed by some of the Mormon posters here, is the perception that depression is considered a personal shortcoming, rather than a legitimate mental/emotional/physiological state that needs professional attention. Instead, we're treated with glib and inhumane comments toward those who suffer terribly. What a shame that some Mormons on this thread chose to be callous, when they constantly hold their faith up to be a paragon of virtue, sympathy, and a path toward happiness.

Given up on accusing me of homosexual bashing then?

[_Yoda]

Inc, I'm sorry about your Mom. It's always painful to see family members suffer. It sounds like her current marriage is better, and at least the abuse is gone?

Are you able to keep in contact with her at all?

[_Inconceivable]

Are you able to keep in contact with her at all?

I'm guessing it's too painful for her to reply to my emails etc. No contact for over 2 years. She did use my email address a couple times to send pics/notes directly to my wife and kids.

My point is that she has relied on mostly priesthood blessings, faith and righteousness all of these years for most her therapy. She is extremely sensitive and frail of mind and has an amazing imagination about history of her family and the church that has become more vivid and fictional over the years. I would also like to say that I've known few human beings with greater love and intent for kindness than my mother - it's just all been corrupted up into zealotry.

[_beastie]

My point is that she has relied on mostly priesthood blessings, faith and righteousness all of these years for most her therapy. She is extremely sensitive and frail of mind and has an amazing imagination about history of her family and the church that has become more vivid and fictional over the years. I would also like to say that I've known few human beings with greater love and intent for kindness than my mother - it's just all been corrupted up into zealotry.

In my experience, this was common in Mormonism. Look at that mormonwiki article I cited earlier - therapy was at the bottom of the list, AND it was "LDS counseling" that was suggested. Maybe that works in some parts of the country, but where there are few LDS, the waiting list for LDS counseling is very long, and appointments often few and far between - and I'm skeptical of the quality of the counseling as well, due to personal experience.

It also seemed to me that many LDS were distrustful of the professional psychiatric/psychological community in general. Perhaps that has changed, or was distinctive to my own region, I don't know. But it was present. It took me years of suffering in a miserable marriage before I got desperate enough to go to a "real" therapist.