New Letter from the First Presidency

[_Jason Bourne]

LOL! Yeah, Nehor, for sure, this would work in real life. For sure.

I will say that, under your paradigm, you Mormons are pathetic, faithless, losers. God hasn't inspired even ONE to cure cancer yet.

I had cancer.

I received two priesthood blessings. One promised I would live. The second promised my body would be restored to it full and proper function. This was a concern because there was about an 80% chance the type of cancer I had along with the required surgeries would leave my body in such a way to require on going man made devices to make certain things work.

Both blessings were fulfilled 100%.

Now I did have great medical care but even my surgeon was surprised at the positive outcome.

[_Chap]

LOL! Yeah, Nehor, for sure, this would work in real life. For sure.

I will say that, under your paradigm, you Mormons are pathetic, faithless, losers. God hasn't inspired even ONE to cure cancer yet.

I had cancer.

I received two priesthood blessings. One promised I would live. The second promised my body would be restored to it full and proper function. This was a concern because there was about an 80% chance the type of cancer I had along with the required surgeries would leave my body in such a way to require on going man made devices to make certain things work.

Both blessings were fulfilled 100%.

Now I did have great medical care but even my surgeon was surprised at the positive outcome.

I am sincerely glad to hear things turned out well for you, partly because you are a fellow human being, but partly too because you seem to be a pleasant and rational person.

I am sure you would agree, however, that occasional success stories of this kind are no basis for claiming that prayer is a useful way of dealing with medical problems. To establish that we would need to find a way of comparing the results of (in this instance) administering priesthood blessings to a random sample of cancer patients, and leaving a matched sample unblessed.

Of course testing permanent cancer remission is a notoriously tricky business. But in the simpler case of amputees, it seem that no-one claims to have grown a replacement arm or leg after a blessing, however faithful they were or however much they wanted or needed it. That does seem to suggest what our working hypothesis should be in the more general case.

[_Black Moclips]

Honestly while this may be a trivial issue it is also ridiculous how you over zealous critics are carping about it. It is a simple protocol. Perhaps petty ans small in some of your eyes eyes but over all no big deal.

Get over it.

Well as the OP on this one, I wouldn't consider myself an overzealous critic, and I can absolutely say I am "over it" and won't be losing any sleep. If anything, it will bring me a little something to look forward over the next few weeks as people forget during their talks about the scripture thing. Then I can gasp and feign some "I can't believe they are disobeying counsel" look. (ok, I really wouldn't do that).

Its not that the actual letter or its contents/instructions are momentous or a big deal. Its the principal that local members need the direct instruction from God's mouthpieces on earth over something so trivial and silly. That is what leaves me scratching my head. This coupled with other things such as only singing the "approved hymns", as well as outward appearance type counsel on earings and the conference talk where real believing mothers dress their little boys like missionaries and little girls like dolls with perfecting combed hair, etc. I just think to myself, aren't the weightier matters?

[_beastie]

I concur with Chap's comments, Jason.

My exhusband's aunt was diagnosed with lung cancer - she was either in her late sixties or early seventies. She had a priesthood blessing and had a very powerful experience. She was positive she had been cured, and used this blessing experience to try and restore my faith in the church.

She died of that same lung cancer a couple months later.

I'm sure you knew people could share these type of stories, as well. And I don't mean to minimize your own experience - I am extremely happy you were cured of your cancer, not just out of humanity, but because I really like you. But this is just to demonstrate chap's point.

People who believe tend to pay attention to the times it worked, and forget, or make excuses for (just not God's will) all the times it doesn't work. It's not a consistent, reliable solution to cancer.

[_truth dancer]

LOL! Yeah, Nehor, for sure, this would work in real life. For sure.

I will say that, under your paradigm, you Mormons are pathetic, faithless, losers. God hasn't inspired even ONE to cure cancer yet.

I had cancer.

I received two priesthood blessings. One promised I would live. The second promised my body would be restored to it full and proper function. This was a concern because there was about an 80% chance the type of cancer I had along with the required surgeries would leave my body in such a way to require on going man made devices to make certain things work.

Both blessings were fulfilled 100%.

Now I did have great medical care but even my surgeon was surprised at the positive outcome.

The thing is Jason, people all over the world are "healed" through various means. I've known people who believe they were healed while visited Lourdes, people who are EVs and had faith healing, people who are nonreligious but meditated, people who have had spirit healers, even WOMEN (God forbid) who used energy healing to heal. Then there are all sorts of medical miracles that have no influence whatsoever from prayer of any sort.

I know two situations personally where in a priesthood blessings (given with enormous knowing) the people were promised they would live, both died. I know of a girl who was paralyzed due to a tumor on her spine and her blessing promised she would walk again (in this case even members of the twelve prayed for her and one gave her the blessing). She is still very much paralyzed after over twenty years and unless some scientific advancement comes forth pretty soon it doesn't look like she will ever walk. If anything the blessing gave her false hope and kept her from accepting her situation and dealing with it in a healthy way.

And, my sister in law was in a coma after a severe infection, on life support with no chance of living without support. (She actually joined the church as an adult but then had her name removed after she learned more about it). Anyway, my brother (who also had his name removed) was not ready to take her off support and believed she would live. After four months on life support she started showing signs of improvement. Fast forward to the end of the story, today she is alive and well. No blessing. No belief in God.

The point is, priesthood blessings don't seem to produce results out of the ordinary, or even slightly unusual.

In terms of the OP... the way I see it, there are about a million things more important to our world and life, than a person asking the congregation to open scriptures in a meeting. To think that of all the counsel, advice, ideas, help that God, through his prophet could impart to his chosen saints, a speaker asking members to refer to their scriptures is the most important and worthy of a "decree" just seems really strange.

Ya know?

:-(

~dancer~

[_Jason Bourne]

I am sincerely glad to hear things turned out well for you, partly because you are a fellow human being, but partly too because you seem to be a pleasant and rational person.

Thanks

I am sure you would agree, however, that occasional success stories of this kind are no basis for claiming that prayer is a useful way of dealing with medical problems. To establish that we would need to find a way of comparing the results of (in this instance) administering priesthood blessings to a random sample of cancer patients, and leaving a matched sample unblessed.

Sure I know this. Personally I believe and have faith the prayers and blessings made a difference. But no, empirically I cannot prove it nor do I have empirical data to demonstrate that pray makes such things more successful for those who use it than those who don't. Though I have read articles that talk about prayer and positive impact in sickness and getting better. But the studies tend towards it being a benefit from a meditation and self help PMA type process.

[_Jason Bourne]

I concur with Chap's comments, Jason.

My exhusband's aunt was diagnosed with lung cancer - she was either in her late sixties or early seventies. She had a priesthood blessing and had a very powerful experience. She was positive she had been cured, and used this blessing experience to try and restore my faith in the church.

She died of that same lung cancer a couple months later.

I'm sure you knew people could share these type of stories, as well. And I don't mean to minimize your own experience - I am extremely happy you were cured of your cancer, not just out of humanity, but because I really like you. But this is just to demonstrate chap's point.

People who believe tend to pay attention to the times it worked, and forget, or make excuses for (just not God's will) all the times it doesn't work. It's not a consistent, reliable solution to cancer.

Yes I understand. I was not saying that it is fool proof. I have a very close friend who had a son with cancer that was given many priesthood blessings that he would live. But he did not make it. I think this has challenged my friend's faith some and mine as well. And I always struggle when I have given such blessings due to the uncertainty which, in my own faith, caused me to wonder if I was saying what God wanted or what I wanted. I know you do not believe in God but I do still so this is a valid question for me. maybe I just have no faith some TBMs here might say. But this is a tough issue.

[_Jason Bourne]

In terms of the OP... the way I see it, there are about a million things more important to our world and life, than a person asking the congregation to open scriptures in a meeting. To think that of all the counsel, advice, ideas, help that God, through his prophet could impart to his chosen saints, a speaker asking members to refer to their scriptures is the most important and worthy of a "decree" just seems really strange.

Ya know?

:-(

~dancer~

Sure

But see the issue is not mutually exclusive. Just because the Church is given direction on a small item of protocol does not mean it is not dealing with more major issues as well.

[_truth dancer]

In terms of the OP... the way I see it, there are about a million things more important to our world and life, than a person asking the congregation to open scriptures in a meeting. To think that of all the counsel, advice, ideas, help that God, through his prophet could impart to his chosen saints, a speaker asking members to refer to their scriptures is the most important and worthy of a "decree" just seems really strange.

Ya know?

:-(

~dancer~

Sure

But see the issue is not mutually exclusive. Just because the Church is given direction on a small item of protocol does not mean it is not dealing with more major issues as well.

No, but given that there are only one or two times a year the brethren have a letter read in church providing counsel to all the active members of the church, it seems safe to assume that what is written is of some import, no?

If I recall correctly, the two FP letters this year have related such important information as, 1. Do not contact the brethren, and 2. Speakers are not to ask the congregation to open scriptures during their talk.

Sure gives the impression that these are seriously significant issues.

~dancer~

[_guy sajer]

What was funny, was the right after reading the letter, a lady gave a talk, and when she referenced a scripture and went to read it, she said "No one turn to it". I heard few chuckles, but guess what, no pages were turning.

I think the letter was just plain silly. I'm almost embarassed that the FP thinks this is something important, requiring a churchwide mandate, and that they think ward meetings need to be that controlled. So much for the rumor that leadership thinks we are spiritually over-regimented.

It is not nobody can turn to passages in the scripture. They just don't want the person giving the talk to tell people to open their scriptures. And they don't want visual aids in sacrament. I also note nobody bothered to mention that the letter said that doing such activities is fine in SS.

Honestly while this may be a trivial issue it is also ridiculous how you over zealous critics are carping about it. It is a simple protocol. Perhaps petty ans small in some of your eyes eyes but over all no big deal.

Get over it.

Sorry Jason, but this is a perfect example of the triviality of Mormon prophets and the control-obsession of Mormon high leadership.