John Tvedtnes: Foul-mouthed Hatchet Man?

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_Mister Scratch
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Post by _Mister Scratch »

Dr. Shades wrote:Mister Scratch (and/or anyone else):

By way of "gee whiz" trivia, John Tvedtnes is the same apologist who reviewed a portion of my website for the Review of Books.

You can read what he says about me, and my site, here.


Yes, I read that some time ago, and am very glad that you linked to it, Shades. A couple of things in the article caught my attention.

At this writing, the FARMS research department employs only five full-time people. Our function is to oversee research projects funded or sponsored by FARMS but conducted by people not employed by FARMS. Thus if a researcher needs a photocopy of an article, we obtain a copy of it. If he or she needs a book, we purchase it. On occasion, one or another of us actually writes an article that is published by FARMS, but we do it on our own time, outside of work hours. Thus, contrary to the assumption of many critics, we are not paid to do research to provide evidence for the Book of Mormon or to write reviews of books.


This is quite revealing. Tvedtnes's piece was written in 2000, and we know that FARMS has increased its scope and finances a great deal then, even being granted use of a professional "fundraiser." More interesting it his description of this peculiar "research department." Basically, this sounds like the "brain" that is controlling the various heads of the Mopologetic hydra. They assign projects, scour lists for books, track down and photocopy articles, and locate individuals sympathetic to the cause. I wonder: would it be fair to label this a kind of anti-Mormon intelligence-gathering operation? I.e., the "research department" exists to keep a tab on criticism of the Church, and then commissions people to write FARMS articles?

Also very odd is Tvedtne's insistence that the "research department" staff does not write articles during "work hours." What the? So, what are they getting paid to do, then? It seems to me like they have gone to great pains in order to avoid anyone being able to say that they are paid to "write" apologetics. Tvedtnes and other paid apologists can do everything *but* write. That way, they can continue to make the hypocritical argument that anti-Mormons are somehow "profiting" from criticism of the LDS Church.

Elsewhere in the article, Tvedtnes foolishly discloses more details about the inner workings of FARMS:

Reading the Shades article, one gets the distinct impression of a concerted effort on the part of the FARMS Review of Books to obfuscate when reviewing anti-Mormon works. This again ignores the fact that the Review is not a thinking entity any more than FARMS itself is. Rather, it publishes reviews written by various individuals whose employment and geographical locations vary considerably. There is no official policy or edict from the editor (Daniel C. Peterson) that requires reviewers to take a particular view with regard to anti-Mormon writings. A disclaimer published at the beginning of each copy of the Review states that "the opinions expressed in these reviews are those of the reviewers. They do not necessarily represent the opinions of the Foun dation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, its editors, Brigham Young University, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or the reviewers' employers." Having written several reviews, mostly of anti-Mormon publications, I can categorically state that the editor has never told me what I should write or what tone I should use. In most cases, he requested that I write the review, but in other instances I chose to do so.
(emphasis added)

It seems to me that DCP is, to a certain extent, "pulling the strings." He picks certain individuals who can be counted on to tow the party line. Tvedtnes tells us (humorously) that FARMS is "not a thinking entity," and yet it is clear that a certain degree of calculated selection is going on.
_William Schryver
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Post by _William Schryver »

You have serious problems.

He saith as he hastens to join the shameless circle again.

The choreography of your sordid dance is so well practiced now that it has become a proverb.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_KimberlyAnn
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Re: John Tvedtnes: Foul-mouthed Hatchet Man?

Post by _KimberlyAnn »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:
Mister Scratch wrote:Image

Above: John Tvedtnes patiently awaits orders for his next assignment.

That picture scares me.


That's 'cause he looks like John McCain!

KA
_Chap
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Post by _Chap »

William Schryver wrote:
You have serious problems.

He saith as he hastens to join the shameless circle again.

The choreography of your sordid dance is so well practiced now that it has become a proverb.


Schryver <gasp!> just posted something that I could let my eight-year old daughter read. Yes, and she does know what "choreography" means.

I just hope she doesn't ask me to explain what the strange man is really talking about, though: "You see, dear, he believes in a funny religion. And when people say his funny religion isn't true, he says lots and lots of really rude words. No, worse than those ones. No I can't really explain why. I think he must think his god wants him to do it. Yes, his religion really is a funny one ... "
_William Schryver
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Post by _William Schryver »

skippy:

I see nothing to get worked up here (well, except for Schryver's continued visits to the gutter; I find his comments more offensive and low than anything else on this thread, and would think so regardless of whom they were aimed at).

You needn't wonder.

They are aimed at you and everyone else here in the The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™! Where shabby attention whores turn tricks as the neighbors watch and cheer.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_skippy the dead
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Post by _skippy the dead »

William Schryver wrote:skippy:

You needn't wonder.

They are aimed at you and everyone else here in the The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™! Where shabby attention whores turn tricks as the neighbors watch and cheer.


If you read what I wrote, it's not that I was wondering who they were aimed at. I was commenting that they are low and offensive no matter whom they were aimed at. I know exactly who you are intending to slam. (Reading comprehension my dear callow fellow - reading comprehension.)

You seem to derive a rather perverse pleasure in your puerile comments. I suppose that's your wont. Not what one would normally expect from an adult who fancies himself a defender of any faith. At any rate, you seem perfectly aware of your low behavior, so carry on.
I may be going to hell in a bucket, babe / But at least I'm enjoying the ride.
-Grateful Dead (lyrics by John Perry Barlow)
_William Schryver
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Post by _William Schryver »

skippy the dead wrote:
William Schryver wrote:skippy:

You needn't wonder.

They are aimed at you and everyone else here in the The Great and Spacious Trailer Park™! Where shabby attention whores turn tricks as the neighbors watch and cheer.


If you read what I wrote, it's not that I was wondering who they were aimed at. I was commenting that they are low and offensive no matter whom they were aimed at. I know exactly who you are intending to slam. (Reading comprehension my dear callow fellow - reading comprehension.)

You seem to derive a rather perverse pleasure in your puerile comments. I suppose that's your wont. Not what one would normally expect from an adult who fancies himself a defender of any faith. At any rate, you seem perfectly aware of your low behavior, so carry on.

Reading comprehension, my dear shallow fellow - reading comprehension.

What you see as "puerile", discerning readers see as a remarkably accurate figure of the facts.

Needless to say, the faux outrage directed towards my journalistic precision seeps with irony when one takes into consideration the sum of the content of this tawdry orgy of sciolistic excess masquerading as a message board.
... every man walketh in his own way, and after the image of his own god, whose image is in the likeness of the world, and whose substance is that of an idol ...
_dartagnan
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Post by _dartagnan »

Why do you excuse lies among apologists Will?

Becuse you're a liar too?
“All knowledge of reality starts from experience and ends in it...Propositions arrived at by purely logical means are completely empty as regards reality." - Albert Einstein
_LifeOnaPlate
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Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

dartagnan wrote:Hey Will, when are you going to answer for your lies?

Why do you keep running every time I point them out?

Be a man, not a mouse.

Incidentally, John was the BYU "scholar" who emailed me during my first exchange with Metcalfe back in 2002, and informed me that Brent had swindled the KEP photos from the bereaving wife of Steve Christensen. He created this dramatic story, saying Brent had been fooling people into thinking he was really LDS but all along he was anti and nobody knew it, or else she never would have sold him the negatives.

It turns out that this was b***s***, and John later said it was just a rumor he heard and that he "could" be wrong.

This is what really made me flip on the issues. All this time I kept hearing stories about how deceptive and beligerent these "antis" are. FARMS reviews are filled with one ad hominem after another, focusing on the characters of the authors instead of the arguments they present. But when it is all said and done, I look back and see far more lies and deception on the part of the apologists.

Will is here to keep that tradition going strong. He lies because it is a means to an end.


and you continue to disregard Scratch's nonsense. It is illustrative, Kevin Graham. Very illustrative.

Posts like this are quite disgusting, Scratch. You are, I am afraid, a slanderer and a coward.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Jason Bourne
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Post by _Jason Bourne »


Conclude what, Jason? I observed that he engaged in gossip and smearing of his own (against Brent Metcalfe), and that he erupted with a foul-mouthed rant on an email exchange. It seems to me that your charges are blown way out of proportion
.
I didn't "conclude" that anywhere, Jason. You are free to draw your own conclusions based on the evidence.



You last para of your op states:

o, in summary: John Tvednes, a "hired gun" for SHIELDS, is also a gossipmongerer with a nasty, foul-mouthed temper. In other words: par for the course, as far as apologetics---especially SHIELDS apologetics---are concerned. Is he as far up the "hierarchy" as capo regime Louis Midgley? I don't think so, but his recent appointment as "associate" would seem to suggest that he is climbing up the ladder.


Do you suffer from short term memory problems?


Let me note a couple thing. SHIELDS does not pay people. It is a web site of some hobby apologists.


Do you know this for a fact? Or is that just "speculation"?



I know it.

Tvedtness is now retired and does not live in Prove anymore nor does he work for FARMS any longer.

Yes, I know. He now works for SHIELDS.



He may give some of his time but SHIELDS is non paying.
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