Why I Left / Breaking the News

[_Jersey Girl]

Jersey

LoF stand for Lecture on Faith.

Thank you for the straight forward answer, Mr. Bourne.

[_The Nehor]

You really are an ass, BC. Even Nehor was sympathetic to KA's point of view.

I'm not so much sympathetic to her (I think she made the wrong choice) so much as I'm annoyed by him. He handled it badly. Of course I'm assuming her that what she said is the whole truth. I'm sure he has a rationale for acting in a way contrary to everything God teaches Priesthood holders should be. The question is left then as to whether his reasons were valid. They're probably somewhere in the middle.

I believe that he probably is not quite as evil as she makes him out to be only because I've been through and seen breakups all the time. Both sides are almost always (according to them) completely innocent. They're not.

[_Yoda]

You really are an ass, BC. Even Nehor was sympathetic to KA's point of view.

I'm not so much sympathetic to her (I think she made the wrong choice) so much as I'm annoyed by him. He handled it badly. Of course I'm assuming her that what she said is the whole truth. I'm sure he has a rationale for acting in a way contrary to everything God teaches Priesthood holders should be. The question is left then as to whether his reasons were valid. They're probably somewhere in the middle.

Yes, but first of all, you recognized that her husband was being a jerk.

You also didn't just blanketly assume that KA was lying about why she left the Church.

In other words, you're a good guy, Nehor. BC could learn from your Christ-like example.

[_The Nehor]

Yes, but first of all, you recognized that her husband was being a jerk.

You also didn't just blanketly assume that KA was lying about why she left the Church.

In other words, you're a good guy, Nehor. BC could learn from your Christ-like example.

I think they both screwed up based on her blog. I'm hoping that kind of cynicism doesn't make me christlike. ;)

[_huckelberry]

There were several reasons I left, BCSpace. What the Isaiah passage seemed like at the time was a confirmation of my query as to whether or not Mormonism was true. It felt like an answer to my prayer, not the sole reason I left.

Ah! So there ARE other reasons. The thread title is 'Why I left" so I don't see how it was unreasonable for me to think that this evangelical chestnut was your reason. That you are misleading us is exactly what I expected seeing as how this is just the same old sob story that everyone else tells.

Evangelical chestnut, chestnut ? Using that characterization sounds like a good method of shortcircuiting any thought on the matter. Aside from the silliness of taking an interpretation common to Catholics, Orthodox, Jews, traditional protestants and naming it for one recient grouping of Chriistians, I have read a lot of noise from LDS apologist about this passage none of which has shown any weakness in the traditional interpretation. True LDS have shown that that view may not have been held by all Isrealits before the captivity. LDS have shown that it is possible to project other readings of the scripture. I have read people sound as if the folks in Tyre had the true understanding of Jewish sciripture .I have yet to see any reason to think that is so other than the fact that Joseph Smith thought so. Of course if one has some sort of desire to believe that man then one can manage to fit even the Isaiah passage into ones belief. It is exceedingly difficult to proof text people out of that desire.

But I doubt very much if Kimberly was trying to make a proof text argument. Instead it sounds as if she found a text whichseems to speak what she at that time suspected to be the truth. It would be that suspicion which was troubling her Mormon thought no a proof text argument.

There have been many people who think the whole idea of a God implies a unity of god without which the word only refers to people more marvelous than the average. Good example being ERic Clapton is a guitar god. If Eric Clapton is god then of course there are many gods. Alexander was a god,Cesear was a god, Homer was a god, Plato was a god. bla bla bla.

Or should i feel more belief in Tyres pantheon just because it is the cultural background of the Old Testament? The background is not the truth of the Bible. If there is any truth in it it is in the realizations that experiences of faith lead people to. It is what Isaiah says in the end not the path of previous confusions which lead to that statement.

People whose fundamental perception is that if there is a God then there is but one God read the Isiah passage as a reflection of that realization.

Actually though there may be other perceptision in earlier layers of Old Testament writing I think it is as clear as the day as long that the perception I am referring to is what Isaiah is speaking.

However there is no limit to the preztel contortions LDS apologist can go through to say Isaiah is experessiing thre belief in many gods when he speaks of God knowing no other god.

[_bcspace]

Evangelical chestnut, chestnut ? Using that characterization sounds like a good method of shortcircuiting any thought on the matter.

Nothing I have said necessitates the shortcircuiting of any thought. The fact of the matter is that KA said her catalyst was the notion that there is only one God, which is indeed an evangelical chestnut because the Bible says otherwise. So please, a little intellectual honesty here. Since KA based her leaving the Church on this erroneous notion, that is a serious matter akin to taking the wrong directions to an important destination. If that was not her catalyst (which I think likely given the typical exit story), then she is lying, pure and simple.

[_bcspace]

How so? The LoF chestnut is dead. What else you got?

Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

Last I checked, you had no answer to my response on the LoF.

[_bcspace]

The one she gave in the op of course.

You mean the Isaiah passage? That wasn't "justification", bc. It was confirmation.

Which she used for justification. Amazing how you guys howl when I discount your testimony yet many of you are quick to discount and mock the tesimonies of LDS. So, skip to the heart of the matter please. Would God confirm that which is contrary to His own scripture? I think not. KA received no witness, no confirmation, no epiphany at all from the God whose word is the Bible.

[_bcspace]

However there is no limit to the preztel contortions LDS apologist can go through to say Isaiah is experessiing thre belief in many gods when he speaks of God knowing no other god.

No contortions necessary. The doctrine simply must conform not only with the Isaiah chapters but also with verses like John 20:17 and Deut 32:7-9 etc. The Bible clearly teaches the plurality of Gods.

[_Gadianton]

I decided to post my last time as a mortal on your thread. You are right to be concerned for revealing your true feelings here. As we speak, per the admission of Will, associates of FARMS are monitoring this conversation and very likely patting each other on the back and joking about it via Skinny-l.

I am very drunk right now, so any mistakes herin are the mistakes of men.

Do not listen to BCSpace, who apparently doesn't keep up with apologetics. As we speak, David Bokovoy is likely working on his next subversive attack on Christianity, arguing for polytheism and for the apparent success of heathen nations in influencing the religion of ancient Israel.

Oh, they have distinctions such as "henothesism" or whatever, but plain and simple, it's polytheism because it doesn't really matter what the business operative structre of the "gods" are, it's a betrayal of true Christian monotheism.

I'm sorry to hear about your husband's reaction. I have to wonder about the secret indoctrination of the Book of Mormon with it's stories of the armies of Heleman. A bunch of mamma's boys who are out to kill anyone who disagreed with what "mamma said". You saw "The Waterboy" with Adam Sandler right? Srippling warrior. So really, this is how priesthood men live their lives, worried that they'll disappoint their mom. Even if that means betraying their wife.

It was a hard road for all of us leaving the church. We were all pretty duped, and very entrenched on every level in Smith's nightmarish cult. Having family involved made it that much harder for you and than it was for me and belive me, I really do sympathize with that.