CaliforniaKid wrote:Thanks for that, Ray. Maybe God has squirreled away some 1832 Mormons in a stasis chamber somewhere so that he's not technically violating his promise, just like he did with John and the Three Nephites.
Chris, Gerald Lund in his book
The Coming of The Lord, which was originally published c.1971, was still holding out hope of this prophecy being fulfilled. Lund is now a GA, and according to Amazon his book was re-issued in 2005. I no longer own a copy (I had the original), but my recollection is that Lund speculated about people alive in 1832 (but extended, of his accord, to the late 19th century) who (anyone anywhere on earth) might still be alive today thus according the prophecy some validity (corrections welcome). In 1997, this is what Lund said:
Principle 3: True revelation does not contradict gospel principles or go contrary to established Church policy and procedure.
This principle seems self-evident and hardly worthy of mention, but again and again we hear of cases where the principle is violated. Sensational stories or wild rumors go through the Church like wildfire. Some are almost ridiculous in nature, and yet there are still those who believe them. For example, one story that has been around for years tells of a hitchhiker supposedly picked up by Church members. As they drive along, the hitchhiker tells the people that if they don't have their food storage now, it is too late. Then he mysteriously disappears out of the car. You would think that everyone would be skeptical of such a story, but there are always a few who believe it. In another case a person predicted that the great earthquake foretold in the scriptures was about to hit Utah. For months he was a popular fireside speaker, and tapes of his talk were widely distributed. Do you remember a major earthquake in Utah in recent years? Neither do I. Another man worked out the exact day and date that Christ will come, and that, too, went around the Church like a sensation. The scriptures say that "no man, no, not [even] the angels of heaven" know the day nor the hour of his coming (Matthew 24:36). So where does that leave him? And why aren't we wise enough to see the contradiction? Here is what President Harold B. Lee had to say of such things:
It never ceases to amaze me how gullible some of our Church members are in broadcasting sensational stories, or dreams, or visions, or purported patriarchal blessings, or quotations, or supposed [entries] from some person's private diary. . . .
. . . We find that these [things] are finding their way into our Relief Society meetings, into priesthood quorums, firesides, institutes, and seminaries.
http://speeches.BYU.edu/reader/reader.php?id=2640Would that include Orson Pratt's prophecy? Parley Pratt's? Remember this important line too:
True revelation does not contradict gospel principles or go contrary to established Church policy and procedure.
So "Church policy and procedure" is sacrosanct. "Revelation" (from sundry sources) cannot contradict it, because the revelations which gave it/them are from God. It's important to bear this in mind when contemplating the "God said it, and God cannot lie" line, because this impacts on the claim that the Black ban was "only a policy", according to some. According to Lund, there is no distinction. A policy or Church procedure is given by revelation. It isn't the "mind of men" (not even 18 month missions for males, where God decided he made a mistake). The Brethren have greater access to God. But the Brethren have no intention of addressing the false prophecies of Orson and Parley Pratt (and JFS), given in the name of God. It wasn't "Church policy".
On the subject of money-making, I don't know why there's such an emphasis on FARMS, frankly. Gerald Lund has handsomely profited from his books:
http://deseretbook.com/authors/author-i ... or_id=1775
GA stipend, book profits, no doubt all goes back into the Church (insert cynical smiley here). Has anyone ever questioned where Gerald Lund's profits go?
Does anyone think that George P. Lee was just a disgruntled apostate complaining about the jet-setting lifestyles of the General Authorities? I've gone off on a tangent here, but not an unimportant one. Why the obsession with FARMS when the real money-making culprits seem to be the GAs themselves? Remember Sterling W. Sill? I read most of his books, but even as a faithful member I wondered about his leisurely indulgence in churning out gospel platitudes. His autobiography, for me, was nothing but the leisurely indulgence of a man with too much Church-sponsored time on his hands. This was a man who loved writing, and in his comfy lifestyle spent most of his time doing it. Now I don't envy a GA lifestyle, living out of suitcases and being away from family so often, but what you love doesn't become a burden. Nay, some are GLAD to escape "domestic duties" on this pretext. Apostle Richard L. Evans loved writing and speaking, and hated gardening and "domestic duties". No problem "sacrificing for the Lord" there! And I don't believe, for one minute, that Nibley was ever in apologetics for money. He was in it for love (and revenge), and for making anti-Mormons look like galahs. But he did what he loved doing best, and he could not have done it without a million gullible literalists who think that strange ships and shining stones have anything to do with reality.