Daniel Peterson wrote:All in all, I think it was one of the Festival's strongest seasons, in my experience, and we've been coming faithfully for twenty years.
I also imagine you will be involved with the FAIR Conference. When is that again and how is it coming? Will there be a table for laptop bloggers?
moksha wrote: Ray, if it were possible to put Boaz, Mercury and Will all in a cage and hose them down after they gorged on raw hamburger, Liz would have already done so.
Mok, Boaz and Merc don't have half Will's intelligence. Liz could probably use Boaz and Merc for an entree, but Will will have to be the main course.
liz3564 wrote:As I both pointed out to Will, however, in another thread (can't remember now which one), I DO hold him to a higher standard. Why? Because he claims to be a current temple worthy priesthood holder.
Should we, as members of the Church not hold him to that higher standard? Particularly since, in addition to being a priesthood holder, he proclaims himself an apologist and a defender of the faith?
Liz, ya know I like ya, and I do. But are Will's "indiscretions" any different than "Goddess suite" flirtations? It pains me to point this out. I don't object to either, but why should Will be held to a "higher standard" when some Mormons here are totally excused from similar inquiry? (Because they're "leaning" to exmoism?)
Are my Goddess Suite references mean-spirited? No.
What I have objected to is Will's mean-spiritedness combined with the vulgarity. (Edited to add--In other words, the same thing I object to in some of Merc, Boaz, and Infymus' posts)
Also, let me say here and now, since Scratch has already stated something earlier, if anyone is really offended by the Goddess Suite references, you won't see another one.
liz3564 wrote: Are my Goddess Suite references mean-spirited? No.
What I have objected to is Will's mean-spiritedness combined with the vulgarity.
Also, let me say here and now, since Scratch has already stated something earlier, if anyone is really offended by the Goddess Suite references, you won't see another one.
Liz, I take this in all the jesting and fun-spirit in which you do it. Really, it has never bothered me. But is Will being "mean-spirited"? Or just returning a just measure for all the complete balderdash meted out to him and his friends? That seems more likely to me.
liz3564 wrote: Are my Goddess Suite references mean-spirited? No.
What I have objected to is Will's mean-spiritedness combined with the vulgarity.
Also, let me say here and now, since Scratch has already stated something earlier, if anyone is really offended by the Goddess Suite references, you won't see another one.
Liz, I take this in all the jesting and fun-spirit in which you do it. Really, it has never bothered me. But is Will being "mean-spirited"? Or just returning a just measure for all the complete balderdash meted out to him and his friends? That seems more likely to me.
I'm going to comment on this and then I'm really going to bed. LOL
Here's the thing. I have spoken with Will privately, and I actually like him, too, which is why I'm frustrated. LOL
As I have repeatedly told him, argue viewpoints to your heart's content...just keep personal, unprovoked attacks out of it.
There are people here I care about. I don't always agree with them, but they're good people and don't deserve to be insulted personally.
liz3564 wrote: As I have repeatedly told him, argue viewpoints to your heart's content...just keep personal, unprovoked attacks out of it.
There are people here I care about. I don't always agree with them, but they're good people and don't deserve to be insulted personally.
Liz, I'm not sure Will's attacks have been unprovoked. In fact, I'm sure they haven't. But the solution to this quagmire isn't simple. Blame rests on both sides.
by the way, I hope you still know that I think very highly of you. I think you always try to be fair.
cksalmon wrote:I invited Dr. Peterson to reply to this thread in order to voice his opinion of Schryver's shenanigans.
And I'm here because of your invitation.
cksalmon wrote:Since Dr. Peterson at least semi-regularly checks this board (and I assume he receives email), and since I have asked him, point blank, on more than one occasion, for his response to certain of Will's nasty comments (sans response), I thought he'd be a good FARMS-er with whom to check Will's claim that certain of his FARMS friends are enjoying the show.
I don't know anybody else associated with FARMS who pays any attention to this board. Very few even know it exists.
That leaves me. And no, potty humor and crude sexual references aren't my style. (In case anybody has managed not to notice that.)
cksalmon wrote:Peterson is certainly aware of what Will has posted here.
Actually, you might be surprised to learn how few of the threads and posts I read here. I've seen some things from Will, but almost certainly have missed many.
cksalmon wrote:In the recent past, he has disappeared when I've confronted him with it. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for Dr. Peterson to make clear either that he really enjoys what Will is doing on MDB or that he disdains it.
Will is capable of very intelligent posts, and has written many. As I've said, though, I'm not a fan of crude sexual jokes and bathroom humor and I don't typically follow exchanges where I can see that that's the direction they're taking.
cksalmon wrote:I'll PM him this post, asking a second time for his input.
My apologies for being late in responding. Since we knew that this issue would be agitating MDB around this time, my wife and I bought tickets roughly a year ago to the Utah Shakespearean Festival in Cedar City for all six plays over the Thursday-through-Saturday just past, and then arranged for me to be called as a bishop so that Sunday would be full to the brim, and then scheduled several important meetings and a dinner for today, all to aid me in my attempt to evade this important matter.
Other than your predictable unctuousness, I appreciate the response. Of course, Will claimed that at least two folks from FARMS ("including certain FARMS friends") were generally enjoying his tawdriness.
Au contraire, mon ami. In point of fact, the things I have said have been poetry to the ears of many. At least that has been the general tenor of my private conversations with some who have followed this running exchange, including certain FARMS friends who, strangely enough, have not been able to perceive the same shame in the broad strokes of my “vulgar” posts as have more pious people like the righteous CK Salmon.
If he was not referring to you as one of his "FARMS friends," then apparently he is aware of two other "FARMS friends" who have been following "this running exchange" and find the things he has said generally to be "poetry" to their ears. I don't expect you to know who they are given that you're unaware of "anybody else associated with FARMS who pays any attention to this board."
Maybe Schryver's just tighter with the other folks at FARMS than you. Or, perhaps he was referring to FARMS subscribers, or people who own actual farms.
cksalmon wrote:I invited Dr. Peterson to reply to this thread in order to voice his opinion of Schryver's shenanigans.
And I'm here because of your invitation.
cksalmon wrote:Since Dr. Peterson at least semi-regularly checks this board (and I assume he receives email), and since I have asked him, point blank, on more than one occasion, for his response to certain of Will's nasty comments (sans response), I thought he'd be a good FARMS-er with whom to check Will's claim that certain of his FARMS friends are enjoying the show.
I don't know anybody else associated with FARMS who pays any attention to this board. Very few even know it exists.
That leaves me. And no, potty humor and crude sexual references aren't my style. (In case anybody has managed not to notice that.)
cksalmon wrote:Peterson is certainly aware of what Will has posted here.
Actually, you might be surprised to learn how few of the threads and posts I read here. I've seen some things from Will, but almost certainly have missed many.
cksalmon wrote:In the recent past, he has disappeared when I've confronted him with it. Perhaps this would be a good opportunity for Dr. Peterson to make clear either that he really enjoys what Will is doing on MDB or that he disdains it.
Will is capable of very intelligent posts, and has written many. As I've said, though, I'm not a fan of crude sexual jokes and bathroom humor and I don't typically follow exchanges where I can see that that's the direction they're taking.
cksalmon wrote:I'll PM him this post, asking a second time for his input.
My apologies for being late in responding. Since we knew that this issue would be agitating MDB around this time, my wife and I bought tickets roughly a year ago to the Utah Shakespearean Festival in Cedar City for all six plays over the Thursday-through-Saturday just past, and then arranged for me to be called as a bishop so that Sunday would be full to the brim, and then scheduled several important meetings and a dinner for today, all to aid me in my attempt to evade this important matter.
Now read DCP's post again.
You will notice the careful way in which he tells us that he is "not a fan of crude sexual jokes and bathroom humor", without actually admitting that (within his knowledge of which he can speak) Schryver has actually made any such jokes or posted such humor. There is an excellently slippery PR technique here, which one can often see in action in the media as follows:
Interviewer: Followers of your political organisation have been beating up people who they thought were voting for the opposition. Do you condemn their actions?
PR person: Our party resolutely condemns all political violence.
Interviewer: So you condemn the actions of the youth wing of your party when they beat up the chairman of <organisation Y> in his own home yesterday?
PR person: I have not seen any reports of that happening, and I have already made our position quite clear.
The upshot in this case is that:
(a) DCP gets to tell us yet again that he is a good guy.
(b) However he avoids any direct criticism of a fellow TBM apologist, despite the fact that numerous posts by that person full of obscene sexual abuse are available for inspection on this board.
(c) DCP gets to say yet again how unimportant are the people to whom he is talking (and whom he repeatedly spends time addressing).