Why I am not a Mormon

[_GoodK]

You assumed wrong.

As did you, in assuming I assumed you were a malicious liar. Dizzy yet?

I know him. I scarcely know you.

I scarcely know you. Which makes what you did all the more offensive.

I'm accustomed to you and others claiming that I lie, cover up, disingenuously spin, smear, and misrepresent, and even forge documents, so, mostly out of secure good humor, I offered to supply your entire name and e-mail address if that would be more persuasive.

Oh boy. Here you go again. Try and shed the "Us versus Them" mentality for just a moment, Brother Peterson.

Sorry you didn't find it funny.

**shrugs**
If only you could say sorry about what this whole discussion is really about.

Oh come on. Just look at some of Rollo Tomasi's recent Miniscratch posts, in which he implicitly questions my honesty repeatedly. There are plenty of examples of this. And then there's poor antishock8 . . .

I refuse to be caught up in the feud you, Scratch, antishock8, and Tomasi have going. Sorry.

My point, which, as your irrelevant attempt to belittle me shows, escaped you completely, is that the reason my friends haven't shown up here to defend me -- something to which, you'll recall, you pointed as evidence that my position is wrong -- is that this is a place dominated by my enemies and critics but of which my friends are wholly unaware. Why aren't they here? They don't know that "here" exists.

My comment, which baffling but not surprisingly you took to be belittling, was relevant. You say you have no supporters on this thread (hilariously, Nehor doesn't count), and you blame everyone else but yourself for that. It's Dr. Shades fault for running such a foul board. It's the enemies fault for not allowing your "friends" to come here and defend you.
But what has escaped you, Brother Peterson, is that my friends don't post here either.
The only person I know personally from this board is rcrocket. And I don't even know him very well. I am not even in the business of polemics as you are, Brother Peterson. I don't have a built in audience as do you.

I see it two ways, either:
1. The overwhelming consensus that you messed up and owe me an apology is because you did in fact mess up, and do, in fact, owe me an apology and everyone here can plainly see that.
Or, 2. Everyone here is out to get you because you are Daniel C. Peterson.

You believe the latter, don't you?

You're unfairly mischaracterizing it, attempting to make up with your own rhetoric for the evidence that is conspicuously absent from my note.

LOL. I know how you feel! Seriously though, I don't think my characterization is far off if off at all.

As for "trying to make you look . . . insensitive to the situation," I said nothing in my very brief note to your father about any insensitivity on your part. Not a word.

No. You said it here. Shall I quote you? Ok.

when you mocked him quite contemptuously while he was dealing with your hospitalized and seriously ill sister

frankly, most in the general public, if not here, would have taken GoodK's derision of his father as counting against GoodK rather than against GoodK's father (and particularly so at a time of severe family crisis)

Shall I keep going? I only looked at the first TWO pages of this thread.

I had no desire to portray you as "insensitive."

You could have fooled me (see above)

I've explained my reason.

As I've explained that your reasoning doesn't give me cause to forgive you.

[_beastie]

I thought of a more appropriate alternate scenario.

DCP – Let’s say you are friends with a man who eventually left the church. You remain friends with this person due to your long history, despite your current differences. Many of your friend’s adult children left the church, as well, with the exception of one son and his wife.

Now, the son’s wife is ill in the hospital, and her still believing husband gives her a moving priesthood blessing. Her husband shares this moving event in the hopes it will stir embers of faith in his nonbelieving family. Instead, the father sends an email to family members analyzing, at length, why priesthood blessings don’t work, and the evidence against the LDS in general.

The son is quite frustrated with this situation, and writes a post to MAD, complaining about the situation. In the post, he talks about how he thinks his father has been influenced by satan, rendering him impervious to the spirit and all things decent.

Do you alert the father?

[_mentalgymnast]

I should kick myself. I read this whole silly thread. Does anyone really think that either party in this ongoing conversation is going to back down? Not until the cows come home, and that will be a cold day in hell. As I said earlier, DP is here to stand up for his good name and that he did the right thing. There will be questions, as there have been, as to whether or not he did the right thing. But, you sure can't fault him for sticking up for what he believes to have been the right thing to do.

Oh, by the way, I think he did the right thing.

Isn't it about time to let DP get back to work without sucking him back in here to such a fruitless enterprise? At this point the ongoing debate seems to be somewhat akin to the lyrics of a song that goes like this:

This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

Carry on...if you must.

Regards,
MG

[_Daniel Peterson]

In the meantime, if there were a way to alert viewers who trust your information that it may be unreliable, would you do it?

I probably won't hire a skywriter or buy advertising time on CNN, but, yes, if I have occasion to mention that this particular artifact has turned out to be fraudulent, I will do it. If you would like to put the money up so that I can put one of those running news things from Times Square around the top of my house, I might even be able to give people a minute by minute running account of what artifacts are in and what artifacts are out, which theories are up and which are down, etc.

Repeating my earlier question that is getting buried:

So, out of curiosity, if you had just overheard GoodK call his father a blowhard, would you still have felt morally obligated to inform his father?

Repeating my answer, which you apparently missed:

I would have found that somewhat less problematic. Message boards are ephemeral, but not as ephemeral as spoken conversations. And, even here, the audience is somewhat larger than is included in the typical conversation.

Incidentally, did I mention that I have atheist friends and relatives? If not, I do.

And now to your other post:

I thought of a more appropriate alternate scenario.

It's an interesting one, but it still doesn't get to the ethical issue, which is the fundamental question here.

DCP – Let’s say you are friends with a man who eventually left the church. You remain friends with this person due to your long history, despite your current differences. Many of your friend’s adult children left the church, as well, with the exception of one son and his wife.

We might well remain friends -- I have a few such friends -- but there is no realistic question in my mind that our friendship would be somewhat less close than it had previously been. This for the simple reason -- not specific to Mormonism or even to theism -- that, in our deepest commitments and fundamental ways of understanding life, the universe, and everything, we would no longer be on the same page.

But this has nothing whatever to do with the moral question, which is the salient one and which has been the topic of discussion (and denunciation) here.

Now, the son’s wife is ill in the hospital, and her still believing husband gives her a moving priesthood blessing. Her husband shares this moving event in the hopes it will stir embers of faith in his nonbelieving family. Instead, the father sends an email to family members analyzing, at length, why priesthood blessings don’t work, and the evidence against the LDS in general.

The son is quite frustrated with this situation, and writes a post to MAD, complaining about the situation. In the post, he talks about how he thinks his father has been influenced by satan, rendering him impervious to the spirit and all things decent.

Do you alert the father?

Realistically, I probably wouldn't. But not because I would think that notifying the father was in any way unethical. And that is the point of this discussion.

But it's time, now, to leave grown-up questions and descend, one last time, to the ridiculous:

GoodK sounded pretty peeved.

GoodK's being peeved is no proof of harm. Some people are just peevish; perhaps GoodK is one of them.

And, frankly, can you read his and his father's mind to know you didn't cause "any real harm"? Of course, the answer is "no."

If GoodK wants to claim substantial harm, he's free to do so. Thus far, though, he hasn't done so.

Nor has his father. And I've asked his father. Perhaps GoodK's father is lying?

You say you have no supporters on this thread (hilariously, Nehor doesn't count)

Can you provide an actual quotation?

I didn't say that I have no supporters on this thread.

(I appreciate the fact that The Nehor, and now mentalgymnast, have spoken up on my behalf.)

and you blame everyone else but yourself for that.

Can you provide an actual quotation?

I've blamed nobody for that.

It's Dr. Shades fault for running such a foul board.

Can you provide an actual quotation?

I've said nothing of the sort.

It's the enemies fault for not allowing your "friends" to come here and defend you.

Can you provide an actual quotation?

I've said nothing about any "enemies" somehow "not allowing" anybody to come here and defend me.

You could have fooled me

Obviously.

I should kick myself. I read this whole silly thread. Does anyone really think that either party in this ongoing conversation is going to back down? Not until the cows come home, and that will be a cold day in hell. As I said earlier, DP is here to stand up for his good name and that he did the right thing. There will be questions, as there have been, as to whether or not he did the right thing. But, you sure can't fault him for sticking up for what he believes to have been the right thing to do.

Oh, by the way, I think he did the right thing.

Thanks.

Isn't it about time to let DP get back to work without sucking him back in here to such a fruitless enterprise?

Yes indeed.

At this point the ongoing debate seems to be somewhat akin to the lyrics of a song that goes like this:

This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...This is the song that never ends, yes it goes on and on my friend. Some people started singing it, not knowing what it was, and they'll continue singing it forever just because...

I think you may have omitted a few verses.

Carry on...if you must.

I don't see any reason to do so.

I've made my point, and made it again, and made it again, and made it again, and then repeated it several hundred times. I'm content.

[_Danna]

Incidentally -- for the record -- I'm a Mormon partially because I disagree with the reasons that you adduce to justify your decision to reject Mormonism.

FARMS has published 117 books, and materials totaling more than 100,000 pages. I've been a significant player in that, and it's in the public domain. And I have several book manuscripts in process right now. I make my case in print.

OK. Not sure if I have worked out the formatting here right.
But. Dan. I am interested in an elaboration of your statement here.
Are you saying that due to the effort you have invested, you are a Mormon (=sunk cost benefit).

Surely, as a responsible academic, you would change your opinion if that is what the evidence indicated. I have been in that situation. It is awkward, but there is only one honourable course. In my case, the realisation (no evidence for massive memory repression) took a while and resulted in some difficilty with my family and my own belief in myself.

OK. I am a scientist. Not a linguist or historian or sociologist. But it is a matter of professional ethics to be willing to give up a long held opinion when the evidence suggests you are wrong.

I have read a number of your books, and I know that you can make an excellent argument over just about anything. As an atheist, I find your reasoning on argument over whether Mormons are christians to be spot on. I cannot fault you on your logic. But any logical argument relies on the strength of its premises. For case after case of Mormon discussion, the premises are dodgy to probably fraudulent to weak. So, when you cut down to the facts - why are you still a Mormon?

[_JonasS]

GoodK,

So what if Christianity and Mormonism are man created religions and not true as to what those religions claims they are. What difference does that make as long as one doesn't hurt others and as long as one finds greater personal benefits believing and belonging than not doing so? Why is "truth" so important to you? Is your decision solely about you or do you also consider the greater good of all?

Amen!

[_Chap]

GoodK,

So what if Christianity and Mormonism are man created religions and not true as to what those religions claims they are. What difference does that make as long as one doesn't hurt others and as long as one finds greater personal benefits believing and belonging than not doing so? Why is "truth" so important to you? Is your decision solely about you or do you also consider the greater good of all?

Amen!

My bolding added.

It is not really the opponents of the CoJCoLDS who make 'truth' such a big issue, is it? All over the world (well, mostly in Utah), groups of LDS gather at regular intervals, and queue up to affirm in public 'I know the Church is true'. A small subset of these then appear on message boards such as this one and affirm that general proposition, or others that they believe support it.

So far as I can tell, such people really mean what they say. Joseph Smith really did get gold plates made of the metal with the chemical symbol Au. Parts of the Americas really did have great Jewish civilisations in them for centuries. Somewhere in the cosmos there is a human body that belongs to the LDS deity. And then they send out missionaries all over the world to persuade as many people as possible that these beliefs are true. In the conviction that these beliefs are true many people pay 10% of their income to the CoCJoLDS.

Now if all they did was to appear here and say 'I know I love the Church', or if missionaries came up to people and said 'We don't ask you to believe in any of our doctrines, but we promise that you will have a really cool time in chapel with us, and the temple is mind-blowingly cool', why would one want to argue? (Well, if you had been to chapel and temple and not enjoyed it much, you might legitimately express dissent, I suppose.)

If LDS want to be left alone by critics so far as the issue of truth goes, then all they have to do is stop claiming in public that their beliefs are true, and those of others (like me) are false. Simple. No argument will then take place.

[_EAllusion]

Heh. This is the type of conversation DCP has ample time and energy to participate in on end. It's his forté' on the interwebs. Threads like this? http://mormondiscussions.com/discuss/vi ... g&start=63

I easily found a reference from me to what I called "the Spencer Lake Fraud" on the board formerly known as FAIR, dated "Apr 10 2008, 10:24 PM." When and if I publish something on the topic, which may not happen for a while since New World horses aren't an issue I concentrate on, you can count on my acknowledging the now generally recognized fraudulence of the Spencer Lake skull.

That's not what I was getting at with my slightly snide comment - I think you would acknowledge the Spencer Lake fraud - but good job nonetheless.

[_beastie]

I would have found that somewhat less problematic. Message boards are ephemeral, but not as ephemeral as spoken conversations. And, even here, the audience is somewhat larger than is included in the typical conversation.

Yes, I did miss your earlier response. So the reason you feel ethically justified in tattling is not because a father needs to know when his son has disrespected him, but because it’s in a format that lasts for a while, and to a larger audience. Correct?

Next question: you are friends with a married couple. On an internet board, the topic of the frustration of dealing with overweight spouses has come up, and the male friend posts that he is frustrated that his wife is quite fat.

Would you alert the wife?

Next response:

Realistically, I probably wouldn't. But not because I would think that notifying the father was in any way unethical. And that is the point of this discussion.

Thank you for your honest response (and I don’t mean that as an insult, as I’ve explained elsewhere).

Can I speculate about why you would probably not alert the father? Correct me and supply the correct reasoning if I am wrong (I’m just trying to save time but guessing at what seems obvious). The reason I think you would probably not alert the father is twofold:

1 – you are on the same side as the son, and are sympathetic to his viewpoint, and may actually agree with his viewpoint
2 – you empathize with the son. You compassionately understand why he felt the momentary need to vent. You compassionately understand the relationship may be fragile for the same reasons you’ve stated, on this thread, a friendship with an apostate may be changed and challenged as well, and compassionately hope that the son can maintain some sort of positive relationship with his father, despite his father’s obvious problems. You do not want to cause additional stress of pain in this relationship because you understand and empathize with the son’s position, and you know the son may well be hurt by your tattling.

In other words, you allow your compassion and empathy with the son to override your ethics, which may otherwise demand tattling.

Am I correct in my speculation? Please provide your own reasoning if I am incorrect.

[_GoodK]

Another stellar post from "mentalgymnast". I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say thanks for the contribution.

Oh, by the way, I think he did the right thing.

Of course you would. Its us versus them, remember?

Isn't it about time to let DP get back to work without sucking him back in here to such a fruitless enterprise?

LOL. Oh god. Back to work? Are you new here or something?

By the way, no one asked him to come and justify his tattle taling and his attempts to shame me by rubbing his friend's nose in a post that was never meant for him to see.

Carry on...if you must.

Despite what you may think, this thread isn't about the tattle tale formerly known as Dan Peterson. It is about why I am not a Mormon.

I know, what's the point in even reading it then, right?