Why I am not a Mormon

[_Bond...James Bond]

Yeesh. Hey goodk my brother man. My dad would probably adopt you if you're looking for a dad whose into unconditional love and not throwing sons under the bus.

Isn't this the type of crap that leads to rifts which last decades?

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Isn't this the type of crap that leads to rifts which last decades?

Sure does, and all this caused by Dan's desperate attempt to save face. This is the most shameful thing I've ever seen Dan do on this or any other bb (after thousands of posts). And, even worse, I'm sure Dan has no clue ....

[_marg]

by the way, I wrote this and posted it before Dan posted GoodK's dad's letter. Apparently his dad proved me right.

"Speaking generally, highly religious parents whose kids become atheist are likely to be negatively judgmental about the moral values of their kid. That's because highly religious individuals believe by virtue of their religious beliefs they have higher moral values than others without those beliefs and belief system. It doesn't take a genius to figure out, a highly religious parent such as indicated of your dad in that letter, is unlikely to be accepting of "atheism". So Dan was obviously giving your highly religious father more ammunition with which to judge you and your "fallen" ways."

[_The Nehor]

by the way, I wrote this and posted it before Dan posted GoodK's dad's letter. Apparently his dad proved me right.

"Speaking generally, highly religious parents whose kids become atheist are likely to be negatively judgmental about the moral values of their kid. That's because highly religious individuals believe by virtue of their religious beliefs they have higher moral values than others without those beliefs and belief system. It doesn't take a genius to figure out, a highly religious parent such as indicated of your dad in that letter, is unlikely to be accepting of "atheism". So Dan was obviously giving your highly religious father more ammunition with which to judge you and your "fallen" ways."

Well, can you blame him? I mean his son comes out and associates and agrees with the critic contingent of this board.

Edit: And when he comes he mocks his father for his religious beliefs. Teenagers hanging out outside the convenience store complaining about how inane their parents are.

[_Jersey Girl]

My goodness. This entire thread is just unseemly and heart breaking.

5. As to my relationship with my son, let me say that while I was disappointed in what he wrote -- especially in the fact that he did so in a public forum -- it in no way did any significant damage to our relationship. He is quite young and inexperienced and I think if and when he matures a bit in the next ten to twenty years or so, he will see things quite differently than he does at this time. (One would hope so.) He's not a fundamentally bad person and he's a lot more cocky in print than he is in a face-to-face encounter. This forum is one way for him to vent and work out some of the bigger questions he's wrestling with. I have high hopes for him long-term.

Dear Dad,

While your son did post on a public forum, he did so anonymously. None of us knew who he was or who you are. Most of us still don't, myself among them. Not that it would matter to you, I see your comments above as a condescending betrayal of your father/son relationship and in them, you appear to belittle your son for his youth. As an observer of LDS on boards like this, I would just point out to you that a youth created the religion that you hold dear and took his place as the Prophet you revere.

If I were your child and read the response that you provided through Daniel, I would quite frankly be cut by it. Words fail me to supply any further response than this. That you would align yourself with another adult to the expense of your own son is just unseemly. How is it that you expect your son to respond to your lead when you choose to publicly humiliate him through a go between?

[_antishock8]

GoodK's dad, you're awesome. Feel free to participate here and join in the fun.

This is fun to you?

What kind messed up assholes does Mormonism produce? I may be crude and direct, but the game-playing, family destroying, fun-to-watch-it-all-happen attitude these Mormons have is sick. No one should take pleasure in seeing a father throw his son under the bus to help a non-family member save face, especially someone like the TC.

[_mentalgymnast]

Another stellar post from "mentalgymnast". I'm sure I speak for all of us when I say thanks for the contribution.

My intent in the post you refer to was to look towards bringing this tedious thread to some sort of closure. To that end, I hope I was successful.

You are most definitely welcome.

Regards,
MG

[Tator]

What you did in alerting me to my son's post was in no way unethical. As one who teaches ethics at the college level I think I know something of the subject. There was simply no ethical breach involved here whatsoever and any and all posters who believe otherwise are fooling themselves.

The breech was in lack of compassion and empathy. See my earlier example with the hypothetical scenario of an apostate father and believing son.

My son's angst over your informing me of his post is a simple matter of him being exposed for something he did that he should not have done. He knows this, and I know this and I am confident that deep down inside he is ashamed of himself for mocking the priesthood (as he should be.)

He should in no way be ashamed for pointing out a false religious belief. You know as well as every other poster on this board knows that priesthood blessings don’t work as often as they do work. Of course, believers proffer all sorts of reasons for why that is, but it doesn’t change the fact that it is.

The only thing he did that he probably should not have done was call you a blowhard. However, you have proven beyond reasonable doubt by your letter that you are, indeed, a blowhard, so it is a minor sin.

As you and I have enjoyed a warm friendship for over 20 years now, I am grateful to you for having alerted me to my son's public posting. You did the right thing, I would have done the same, and I think, though they won't admit it, most everyone on that message board who condemns you would have behaved in like manner if they had any common sense or conscience at all. They will deny this, but that is beside the point.

You are incorrect. Most people would factor in compassion and empathy before making such a rash move that could possibly worsen a relationship already stressed by the loss of a family member’s faith. I think you are fooling yourself to insist otherwise.

Dan has admitted, right on this thread, that a friendship with an apostate would be stressed and changed due to the apostate’s loss of faith. You know from experience in your own family that this is magnified when it involves a family member. So to interfere needlessly is a risky action.

Really, what imperative need was fulfilled by Dan’s action? Did you really NEED to know this information? Why?

While I normally do not spend time in forums of this sort, I have found the experience of reading through the various posts to be both hilarious and depressing. You, Dan, are hilarious with most of the things you have posted and I have had many a laugh watching you run circles around a bunch of bitter, angry people who think they've vanquished you and yet often betray a deep misunderstanding of your wit or your point. It's also depressing to read what some would consider to be their own contributions to reasoned discourse.

If you really want to be entertained, go read Will Schryver’s posts on this board. They’re a hoot.

s to my relationship with my son, let me say that while I was disappointed in what he wrote -- especially in the fact that he did so in a public forum -- it in no way did any significant damage to our relationship. He is quite young and inexperienced and I think if and when he matures a bit in the next ten to twenty years or so, he will see things quite differently than he does at this time. (One would hope so.) He's not a fundamentally bad person and he's a lot more cocky in print than he is in a face-to-face encounter. This forum is one way for him to vent and work out some of the bigger questions he's wrestling with. I have high hopes for him long-term.

Finally, a glimmer of common sense. Yes, he is venting on this forum and it is helping him work out some of the bigger questions. So, given this fact, what imperative need of yours was satisfied by Dan tattling to you?

Aside from that, does age and life experience really help one accept that, for example, Joseph Smith married other mens’ wives? Does it help one accept that there is no evidence of a massive Judeo-Christian culture anywhere in the New World during Book of Mormon time periods? Does it help one accept that the process of “revelation” is apparently so flawed that even prophets and apostles, after praying for revelation and guidance, address the body of the church in the name of Jesus Christ and still can’t get things quite right??? Does it help one accept that there is no evidence supporting the contention that the Book of Abraham was translated from a text written by Abraham on papyri? How does age help with all this? I’m 51 years old, left the church well over a decade ago after struggling with these issues in my thirties, and age and life experience certainly didn’t enable me to continue believing.

I'm going to repeat Jersey Girl's statement for emphasis:

While your son did post on a public forum, he did so anonymously. None of us knew who he was or who you are. Most of us still don't, myself among them. Not that it would matter to you, I see your comments above as a condescending betrayal of your father/son relationship and in them, you appear to belittle your son for his youth. As an observer of LDS on boards like this, I would just point out to you that a youth created the religion that you hold dear and took his place as the Prophet you revere.

If I were your child and read the response that you provided through Daniel, I would quite frankly be cut by it. Words fail me to supply any further response than this. That you would align yourself with another adult to the expense of your own son is just unseemly. How is it that you expect your son to respond to your lead when you choose to publicly humiliate him through a go between?

I really hope you think about what Jersey Girl said, GoodK's dad. in my opinion, these are the wisest words spoken on this thread.

As I said, I'm a 51 year old woman with three adult children. I fully expect that my adult children will not agree with me on everything, and may resent some of the things I say and do. This is part of the cycle of life. But I would never, and I mean NEVER, do to any of my children what you have done to your son today.

Did Dan bother to also tell you that GoodK has said many flattering things about you on this board, as well? That you are intelligent, wise, and a good man??? Or did he forget all those things? You've been made a pawn, sir, and you have taken a low road in response.

[_Jersey Girl]

GoodK's dad, you're awesome. Feel free to participate here and join in the fun.

This is fun to you?

What kind messed up assholes does Mormonism produce? I may be crude and direct, but the game-playing, family destroying, fun-to-watch-it-all-happen attitude these Mormons have is sick. No one should take pleasure in seeing a father throw his son under the bus to help a non-family member save face, especially someone like the TC.

I have to agree with you, anti. While I have the gut to dig my heels into various things on a board such as this, this thread and the conduct it displays is beyond my ability to tolerate it. It makes me recoil in some way that is indescribable beyond that. I just don't have the gut for such hurtfulness between father and son. There I said it.

[Guest]

GoodK's dad, you're awesome. Feel free to participate here and join in the fun.

This is fun to you?

What kind messed up assholes does Mormonism produce? I may be crude and direct, but the game-playing, family destroying, fun-to-watch-it-all-happen attitude these Mormons have is sick. No one should take pleasure in seeing a father throw his son under the bus to help a non-family member save face, especially someone like the TC.

You are of course correct and I see how I was misunderstood. I meant fun as in the day to day happenings here which are funny. As I stated previously, I find this turn of events to be hilarious, not just fun.

I apologize for any confusion my post may have caused.