Can a Rightist be Considered a Faithful Latter-Day Saint?

[Guest]

Or, more appropriately and less inflammatory perhaps, can anyone, whatever he labels him or herself, who holds to the positions below, be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

To avoid a scattergun approach, I'll take a group of issues and beliefs traditionally supported and maintained by the Right, and open this up to a critique of the possibility of harmonizing these specific traditional rightist positions on these issues with the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1. The idea that free-market capitalism can be just when the D&C states that the reason the earth lies in sin is that it is not given for one to possess more then another.

2. Reliance on offensive military action to deal with 'threats' to national security. The Lamanites were a threat to the Nephite's security but God and his Prophets always shot down the idea that the method of dealing with them was to wipe them out. In fact taking this action led to their destruction.

3. Consumption unbridled by concern for life on the Earth and it's state is in violation of our stewardship from God to tend to the Earth. Instead Conservatism suggests that instead of enjoying the Earth we should spend our time trying to figure out how we can consume it and convert it into cash (Satan's plan).

4. Seeing merit in the search for wealth, a desire universally condemned by scripture.

5. Insists on a rigid financial system of debts and obligations directly opposed to the God who gave ancient Israel the Jubilee year and release from all debts and the return of property gained legally to one's brother.

6. Holds that labor and ingenuity are the keys to getting what one wants and that to place any safeguards in the way of this process is unfair and wrong. This doctrine was also espoused by one Korihor.

[_Chap]

The lack of a response, let alone a thoughtful response, to this posting strikes me as, well, striking.

I can only presume that (for instance) Coggins/Droopy has been reduced to the same condition as Korihor by Nehor's neatly set out challenges.

Of course that may change.

[_beastie]

OMG!!!! Nehor!! What a great post!

::::applause::::

[_Gadianton]

Chap,

You will see a response. The lack of response would show pause, and possibly imply someone learned something.

Nehor,

That's a pretty good list. The inventive part that I'll admit I just didn't think about was to specifically look at warfare tactics in the Book of Mormon. That's doubly funny because when I was 17, I became interested in die-hard Skousenism. A friend of mine, and I have no idea where he got them, would send me audio and video tapes of home meetings and firesides where these ultra right-wingers were preparing for the last days. The 2nd coming scheduled around 2000. One of the beliefs held that the abundant bloodshed and war stories in the Book of Mormon were there literally as a training manual for faithful Latter-Day Saints to study so when the mobocracy takes over, the Mormons will know how to fight. It might be confusing though when you get to the parts about the parents of the Strippling warriors vowing never to fight again. Or the part where the angel instructs the missionaries to allow the women and children to be murdered as a final testimony against the wrongdoers.

[_richardMdBorn]

Or, more appropriately and less inflammatory perhaps, can anyone, whatever he labels him or herself, who holds to the positions below, be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

To avoid a scattergun approach, I'll take a group of issues and beliefs traditionally supported and maintained by the Right, and open this up to a critique of the possibility of harmonizing these specific traditional leftist positions on these issues with the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1. The idea that free-market capitalism can be just when the D&C states that the reason the earth lies in sin is that it is not given for one to possess more then another.

2. Reliance on offensive military action to deal with 'threats' to national security. The Lamanites were a threat to the Nephite's security but God and his Prophets always shot down the idea that the method of dealing with them was to wipe them out. In fact taking this action led to their destruction.

3. Consumption unbridled by concern for life on the Earth and it's state is in violation of our stewardship from God to tend to the Earth. Instead Conservatism suggests that instead of enjoying the Earth we should spend our time trying to figure out how we can consume it and convert it into cash (Satan's plan).

4. Seeing merit in the search for wealth, a desire universally condemned by scripture.

5. Insists on a rigid financial system of debts and obligations directly opposed to the God who gave ancient Israel the Jubilee year and release from all debts and the return of property gained legally to one's brother.

6. Holds that labor and ingenuity are the keys to getting what one wants and that to place any safeguards in the way of this process is unfair and wrong. This doctrine was also espoused by one Korihor.

Do you think that socialism, a form of big government, is the solution. Please square this with I Sam 8:10-18 where Samuel warns the people that a king (=big government) will oppress them.

[_Scottie]

OMG!!!! Nehor!! What a great post!

::::applause::::

* sniff * our little Nehor is growing up.

[_Chap]

Or, more appropriately and less inflammatory perhaps, can anyone, whatever he labels him or herself, who holds to the positions below, be considered a faithful Latter Day Saint?

To avoid a scattergun approach, I'll take a group of issues and beliefs traditionally supported and maintained by the Right, and open this up to a critique of the possibility of harmonizing these specific traditional leftist positions on these issues with the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ.

1. The idea that free-market capitalism can be just when the D&C states that the reason the earth lies in sin is that it is not given for one to possess more then another.

2. Reliance on offensive military action to deal with 'threats' to national security. The Lamanites were a threat to the Nephite's security but God and his Prophets always shot down the idea that the method of dealing with them was to wipe them out. In fact taking this action led to their destruction.

3. Consumption unbridled by concern for life on the Earth and it's state is in violation of our stewardship from God to tend to the Earth. Instead Conservatism suggests that instead of enjoying the Earth we should spend our time trying to figure out how we can consume it and convert it into cash (Satan's plan).

4. Seeing merit in the search for wealth, a desire universally condemned by scripture.

5. Insists on a rigid financial system of debts and obligations directly opposed to the God who gave ancient Israel the Jubilee year and release from all debts and the return of property gained legally to one's brother.

6. Holds that labor and ingenuity are the keys to getting what one wants and that to place any safeguards in the way of this process is unfair and wrong. This doctrine was also espoused by one Korihor.

Do you think that socialism, a form of big government, is the solution. Please square this with I Sam 8:10-18 where Samuel warns the people that a king (=big government) will oppress them.

Your resort to a one-text response suggests you are unable to respond to the specific points that Nehor raises. That's what I rather expected ...

[_Moniker]

Whoa! Nehor, I am sooo impressed!

Did God help you make that list? :)

[Guest]

Do you think that socialism, a form of big government, is the solution. Please square this with I Sam 8:10-18 where Samuel warns the people that a king (=big government) will oppress them.

No, I don't. I think the Political left is equally wrong. I try to take the position Brigham Young took on politics. They're there. Do what you can to do good. Don't create affiliations that will drag you down. Most of all, do not look for politics to build heaven on Earth. It never has and never will.

I don't disagree with Coggins on the Left being wrong. I just don't think the opposite direction has much more merit.

If given the choice between serving Shiz and Coriantumr the best thing to do is get off the field of battle while trying to avoid stray bullets and give allegiance to neither.

Governments are a necessary evil with the emphasis on the EVIL. Angels don't need much government. A perfect society would need very little as well. I'm also of the rather cynical mindset that nations end up with the governments they deserve. That's a criticism of western civilization.

[_The Nehor]

Chap,

You will see a response. The lack of response would show pause, and possibly imply someone learned something.

Nehor,

That's a pretty good list. The inventive part that I'll admit I just didn't think about was to specifically look at warfare tactics in the Book of Mormon. That's doubly funny because when I was 17, I became interested in die-hard Skousenism. A friend of mine, and I have no idea where he got them, would send me audio and video tapes of home meetings and firesides where these ultra right-wingers were preparing for the last days. The 2nd coming scheduled around 2000. One of the beliefs held that the abundant bloodshed and war stories in the Book of Mormon were there literally as a training manual for faithful Latter-Day Saints to study so when the mobocracy takes over, the Mormons will know how to fight. It might be confusing though when you get to the parts about the parents of the Strippling warriors vowing never to fight again. Or the part where the angel instructs the missionaries to allow the women and children to be murdered as a final testimony against the wrongdoers.

I somehow have my doubts personally that God wants us to learn much from Alma's war chapters except that war is a drudgery and is best avoided. The stripling warriors were shown to be an island of sanity in a civilization wracked from within and without in turmoil. I don't think it's inconsequential that the two enemy kings of the war most described (Amalickiah and Ammoron) were both Nephite dissidents. The enemy was winning due to treason from within and the war was almost lost due to a fifth column of powerseekers within the society. The lesson taught is that the best way to survive is to keep the inward vessel clean not to deal harshly with external enemies. In this dispensation Brigham Young taught that the Indians (who did kill some Mormons) were a scourge on the Saints to keep them off-balance so that they would remember their God and repent. He stated that if they did there would be peace. He harshly condemned attacks on the Indians.