Mormon Times article on DCP

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_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

silentkid wrote:I opted not to click on the "click to enlarge" link above the picture. I felt the picture was large enough as-is.


And it was taken at a distance of 100 yards! You might say it is a testament to new technology, but they were using a freakin' polaroid camera!
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_harmony
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Post by _harmony »

"I do it because I'm absolutely committed to the truthfulness of the gospel," Peterson said. "This is one way that I see that I can help build the kingdom.... This is one offering I can make."


If he actually spent his time defending the gospel, I'd have no complaint. Instead, he spends his time defending the church. The two are not the same.
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

harmony wrote:If he actually spent his time defending the gospel, I'd have no complaint. Instead, he spends his time defending the church. The two are not the same.


I'll go you one better. He spends his time defending apologetics in the guise of defending the LDS Church.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Boaz & Lidia
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Post by _Boaz & Lidia »

Dan,

Who took your headshot? Do they not understand portraiture lighting ratios?

Hire a real photographer next time and you will thank me.

Additionally, remember to groom your eyebrows before the next headshot.

Image
_Rollo Tomasi
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Re: Mormon Times article on DCP

Post by _Rollo Tomasi »

guy sajer wrote:This raises an interesting question. I wonder which would be the more effective apologetic approach, on balance.

The standard approach, which is to act as if any and all criticisms are, on their face, invalid. Take for example, the multiple versions of the First Vision. Rather than concede the obvious, that the fact the Joseph Smith told different versions of one of the single most important events in human history creates legitimate questions about his credibility, apologists act as if it is totally unreasonable to be troubled by the apparent contradictions, that any person of reasonable intelligence and good character can easily see that there's no substance to the concerns, and in the process, offer offense to the questioner by impugning their quite reasonable concern and (in some cases ) their character.

The alternative approach would be to concede the reasonableness of the concern but then try to show how, though reasonable, the concern might be addressed this way or that. In the process, they do not offer offense, they acknowledge the person's right to be concerned and their good sense, but they show a way that the person can use the same good sense to navigate their way to an answer.

What do you think?

For me, the obvious answer is the second. The problem for Dan and like LDS apologists is the Church, the "only true and living church on the earth," is so 'all or nothing' that apologists are effectively forced to use the first approach. To admit a mistake or recognize doubt in Church history and/or its leaders could only serve to chip away at the tacit TBM belief the Church and its leaders are infallible. And that is a slippery slope the Brethren do not want to deal with.

Dan is a practitioner extraordinaire of the first approach. No counter argument is reasonable, and no premise supporting the apologist position is unreasonable. Critics are always wrong, apologists are always right. People who raise questions don't posses good sense, they are confused or misinformed. It's about winning the argument, and destroying your opponent in the process.

Dan is a microcosm of the Church hierarchy -- the Church institution has NEVER admitted a mistake or apologized for a wrong. Again, this is due to the absolute belief that the Church and the Brethren are led by God and could never screw up in that context.
"Moving beyond apologist persuasion, LDS polemicists furiously (and often fraudulently) attack any non-traditional view of Mormonism. They don't mince words -- they mince the truth."

-- Mike Quinn, writing of the FARMSboys, in "Early Mormonism and the Magic World View," p. x (Rev. ed. 1998)
_harmony
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Re: Mormon Times article on DCP

Post by _harmony »

Rollo Tomasi wrote:[
Dan is a microcosm of the Church hierarchy -- the Church institution has NEVER admitted a mistake or apologized for a wrong. Again, this is due to the absolute belief that the Church and the Brethren are led by God and could never screw up in that context.


McKonkie didn't agree, and he'd be in a position to know. The leaders now, however... well, we get what we pay for.
_Trevor
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Re: Mormon Times article on DCP

Post by _Trevor »

harmony wrote:McKonkie didn't agree, and he'd be in a position to know. The leaders now, however... well, we get what we pay for.


At ten percent of one's income, I would say that is a damn crappy deal.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

Boaz & Lidia wrote:Dan,

Who took your headshot? Do they not understand portraiture lighting ratios?

Hire a real photographer next time and you will thank me.

Additionally, remember to groom your eyebrows before the next headshot.


Have you no compassion on your fellow Shadyites? Please, give us more warning before you pull a stunt like that again.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_The Dude
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Post by _The Dude »

Trevor wrote:
harmony wrote:If he actually spent his time defending the gospel, I'd have no complaint. Instead, he spends his time defending the church. The two are not the same.


I'll go you one better. He spends his time defending apologetics in the guise of defending the LDS Church.


Not even that. I don't know the last time he took a stand on an apologetics issue. Mostly he spends his time defending himself in the guise of defending apologetics in the guise of defending the LDS Church.
"And yet another little spot is smoothed out of the echo chamber wall..." Bond
_Trevor
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Post by _Trevor »

The Dude wrote:Not even that. I don't know the last time he took a stand on an apologetics issue. Mostly he spends his time defending himself in the guise of defending apologetics in the guise of defending the LDS Church.


Touche
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
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