The Nehor wrote:Unlimited power over the cosmos, eternal life in a perfect body, and an eternity of perfectly cooked steaks for dinner. My question is....what's the downside?
How about the downside that you are getting closer to being a 40 year old virgin, unless you have sinned.
Furthermore, this religion has kept you from getting married.
You do have a striking resemblance...
Time for a new avatar? If the avatar fits, USE IT.
The Nehor wrote:Unlimited power over the cosmos, eternal life in a perfect body, and an eternity of perfectly cooked steaks for dinner. My question is....what's the downside?
How about the downside that you are getting closer to being a 40 year old virgin, unless you have sinned.
Furthermore, this religion has kept you from getting married.
You do have a striking resemblance...
Time for a new avatar? If the avatar fits, USE IT.
Yes, but according to the critics here's understanding of the Gospel you'll be castrated in the next life and I'll get unlimited sex with the many, many wives that make up my harem. Want to be my chief eunuch? :)
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
I love cathedrals. The Washington National Cathedral is very beautiful, and very peaceful. The crypts are cool. It's sad, I've lived here all my life and have yet to visit the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception.
A few months back an LDS friend of mine sang in a multi-faith choir they had there. Wish I had been able to make it.
The church architecture in Germany was lovely. It was especially nice, going on Christmas eve to some small church to hear singing or an instrumental presentation. The churches were so beautiful, all you had to do was light a candle or two.
Old Testament: there is a place in Wiesbaden Germany called the Kurhaus. The high school I went to there always held prom there. We never needed a single prop or decoration, it was so lovely.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
Some Schmo wrote:I guess if I had to come up with something I like about religion, it would be to say that it looks like some people need it in order to prevent them from behaving like psychopaths.
It’s unfortunate that there are people who are like that. Actually, I question whether the people who ask what’s to prevent them from murdering, raping, stealing, etc if there was no religion would really engage in those activities. But for those that would actually lose all inhibitions upon losing their religion, I’m glad they have it to keep them “sane.”
I imagine it’s an incredibly small percentage of the world’s religious population, however. I don't think people go to church to get morality instruction; they choose a church that complies with their own inherent sense of morality.
Unlike the believer's fear that disbelief in God means moral anarchy, I tend to believe that religion, at the margin, has little impact on people's inherent goodness. Good people are good with or without religion and vice versa. (Generally speaking.) Religion can make a positive difference in cases, but it can also have the exact opposite effect in others. On balance, I think it is probably a wash, although I suspect that without 'dogmatic' religion, the world would be now and historically a much, much better place. Certainly the millions upon millions who have suffered at its hands would agree, no?
No doubt about it.
I do actually think there is a small percentage of people who are actually better people because of it, but I certainly don't think it justifies the massive amount of unnecessary pain it brings.
On balance, I strongly believe the world would be better off without it. I was just trying to think of something good for the sake of Mon's thread.
God belief is for people who don't want to live life on the universe's terms.
Some Schmo wrote: I was just trying to think of something good for the sake of Mon's thread.
Awwww. Thanks Schmo. :)
I suppose I sort of see religion as a product of human cultures and can pick out the different aspects that I find interesting, beautiful, or even noble. That they're manmade, may be a brutal history, etc... doesn't really take away (for me) that they show the human aspect of questioning and a search for answers -- even if those answers and questions appear simple, absurd, etc... to some of us at times.
I think that one great positive aspect of religion is the sence of order and dicipline of behavior it provides. Im certain many here could catalog numerous extremes of order and dicipline brought about by religion, but for a vast majority religion was a way of controling ones self and living a decent and moral life.
People stayed married, and didn't get divorced over any little thing. Husbands worked at fulfilling their roles as providers, women cherished their roles as wives and mothers. Parents went to church on sunday, and prayed with their children over meals and family events. Childrens lives had structure and regimen.
don't look at this as an individual thing, look at this spread out over a society. Structure, regimen, self dicipline. A sense of right and wrong and very clear rules regarding such. Stability is something that is sorely lacking in many communities. A sense of identity and purpose of life.
Religion is a very good thing, and true religion even more so.
We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light. - Plato
Gazelam wrote:I think that one great positive aspect of religion is the sence of order and dicipline of behavior it provides. I'm certain many here could catalog numerous extremes of order and dicipline brought about by religion, but for a vast majority religion was a way of controling ones self and living a decent and moral life.
People stayed married, and didn't get divorced over any little thing. Husbands worked at fulfilling their roles as providers, women cherished their roles as wives and mothers. Parents went to church on sunday, and prayed with their children over meals and family events. Childrens lives had structure and regimen.
don't look at this as an individual thing, look at this spread out over a society. Structure, regimen, self dicipline. A sense of right and wrong and very clear rules regarding such. Stability is something that is sorely lacking in many communities. A sense of identity and purpose of life.
Religion is a very good thing, and true religion even more so.
So then Gaz, in a nutshell you are saying that many people need religion to keep them good, moral, ethical fellow humans?
And you are one of these people who would be lost without the rigid structure of religion?
When I was LDS, I went to live with my father for a short period of time. I got in touch with the local branch down there, and they welcomed me at once. I think the fact that they were a religious minority in the Bible Belt assisted in their accepting me, I really felt like a normal person in that branch, instead of someone who was flawed because of her race, conversion status, and lack of virginity.
Those people went out of their way to take my mind off what was going on in my father's house. We had nothing at Dad's, half the time we didn't have toilet paper to wipe our behinds with, it is rediculous the amount of laziness some people are capable of. My branch president ended up feeding my family for the last two months I was there, and what happened to be the last two months that my father was alive. Perhaps had I known he was sick, I would have felt differently, but he let what amounted to a simple bladder infection take his life, because he didn't want to go to the doctor. So I don't know how sympathetic I can feel. The bottom line was more often than not I opened that refrigerator and there was nothing in there.
I was always welcome in someone's house in my branch. I don't know if a lot of people within my branch knew what life was like in my Dad's house, but they went out of their way to get me out of that situation. My family only heard Dad's complaints about me, they didn't realize that I'd made him promise he'd get a job this time. They didn't know I ended up having to beg for food because he wouldn't work or leave enough money from the assistance he did get to simply feed us. He wouldn't even give me the car so I could get to a place to work.
My branch president went up to my dad one day and solemnly told him that he was the priesthood holder in his home, and hence responsible. He wasn't trying to get my dad to come to church, he was trying to get my dad to feed his kids. I still appreciate that. I used to go to my branch president's house, as it wasn't that long of a walk from mine, maybe two miles or so. We'd sit on his back porch, and I'd tell him everything that was going on. I often had meals there (my brother managed to get fed by our relatives). Sometimes they took me into town with them. Branch members extended the same kindness, and it took away from the loneliness of those days. They didn't have to care, they didn't have to invite me anywhere. Who was I? Nothing special.
When Dad died, people who had never met him came to his funeral just to support me. I'd never seen the like. I remember seeing them in the back, crying for me. We still keep in touch off and on, as I cannot forget their kindness.
They did what they did out of Christian love. Contrary to some views, it does exist.
Each one has to find his peace from within. And peace to be real must be unaffected by outside circumstances. -Ghandi
