The Wealth of the Church

[_Jason Bourne]

My questions was, how can the church maintain its tax exempt status given that it is the owner of a huge conglomeration.

By compling with the laws that are in place for it to maintain its tax exempt status. Such laws do not prohibit tax exempt organizations from investing in and owning assets as long as the income generated from those assets is used to meet its purpose that gives it tax exemption. When it uses income for other purposes it pays tax on that income. When it takes that income and puts it into for profit businesses it pays tax on that income as well.

[_RockHeaded]

Demanding all of the member's funds be deposited for the common good? We tried that. We failed.

Hmmm, are you saying Christ demanded all follower's funds be deposited for the common good?

Saying I envision a true church of Christ to be more in line with the church Christ started (from what we gather), is a far cry from endorsing the early LDS church's attempt at the united order. But just to be clear, I don't see the early LDS church anything remotely reflecting the early teachings (again so far as is recorded) of Christ.

~dancer~

I believe that in the Bible it talks about giving tithes to the church.

[_The Nehor]

Demanding all of the member's funds be deposited for the common good? We tried that. We failed.

Hmmm, are you saying Christ demanded all follower's funds be deposited for the common good?

Saying I envision a true church of Christ to be more in line with the church Christ started (from what we gather), is a far cry from endorsing the early LDS church's attempt at the united order. But just to be clear, I don't see the early LDS church anything remotely reflecting the early teachings (again so far as is recorded) of Christ.

~dancer~

Ananias and Sapphira thought it was a requirement even though they lied about it.

[_truth dancer]

What did Christ say when asked how one could be a disciple of his?

;-)

Regardless, I find it odd that a church is really a huge multi billion dollar corporation with a little church on the side.

It doesn't reflect anything I can find in the New Testament.

[_The Nehor]

What did Christ say when asked how one could be a disciple of his?

;-)

Regardless, I find it odd that a church is really a huge multi billion dollar corporation with a little church on the side.

It doesn't reflect anything I can find in the New Testament.

I think it's a huge worldwide Church with a few businesses on the side, many of which are instrumental in getting the Church's message out and helping to fulfill it's mission.

[_guy sajer]

With all due respect, that's not a valid comparison. The Mormon Church claims that it and it alone is God's representative on earth, and that the Catholic church is an apostate pretender. So why is the Catholic Church the standard to which we compare the Mormon Church?

It is a valid comparison and better yet it is for me. I think it a bit polyanish to attack the Church or any other religion for having assets and managing them in the manner that created more revenue to meet whatever their mission is. I am ok with people opining on whether or not they should buy a mall or other things. I don't even have a problem with people opining maybe the LDS Church should give more to feed the hungry of the world or whatever. But it is silly to argue that in the modern world we live in any large organization is somehow bad because it is a good steward over its assets.

Jason, you're misrepresenting, or misunderstanding, what I said. I too have no problem with any organization, religious or otherwise, being a good steward over its assets. I also have no problem with a religious organization possessing substantial wealth. My objection in the case of Mormonism, is its priorities in terms of how it disposes of its wealth and the corporate culture it has fully embraced in both its secular and religious functions. Plus, Wheat is sadly misinformed about the extent of Mormon charitable giving. We've cited figures here many times (someone else want to provide them, I don't have the time), showing that the Mormon Church spends no more than around 1-2% of its wealth on charitable giving, which is paltry by any standard and especially paltry for the organization that claims it is the sole representative of Jesus Christ on earth.

Finally, my point viz the Catholic Church; given Mormonism's belief that Catholicism is an apostate sect lacking divine guidance, I cannot see how it, therefore, constitutes the standard to which the sole true Church, and Christ's only representative on earth, aspires.

[_guy sajer]

You people are so woefully misinformed.

The CoJCoLDS pays millions and millions in taxes each year to governments around the world. Every *for-profit* entity controlled by the church __ ranches, farms, investment real-estate businesses, etc. __ pays taxes. The Church doesn't pay taxes on the tithes or offerings of its members, but any business entity controlled by the Church operates just like its secular counterparts.

I'm always amazed by the ignorance of people who opine about these things. And why is it __ when people start spewing this garbage about the church being involved in commerical enterprises __ that we never hear a word about the hundreds of millions of dollars it has expended in humanitarian projects over the course of just the last few years?

Hi Wheat, let's try a hypothetical example.

Country A is a large country with a large economy of, say, $3,000,000,000,000. It spends yearly $100,000,000 on social programs helping the needy.

Country B is a small country with a small economy of, say, $300,000,000,000. It spends yearly $50,000,000 on social programs helping the needy.

A citizen of Country A brags to country B that Country A is more generous because it spends 2 times more on social programs than Country B. He tells him, "And why is it __ when people start spewing negative stuff about our country that we never hear a word about the hundreds of millions of dollars we expend on humanitarian projects.

Is he correct?

[_Yong Xi]

You people are so woefully misinformed.

The CoJCoLDS pays millions and millions in taxes each year to governments around the world. Every *for-profit* entity controlled by the church __ ranches, farms, investment real-estate businesses, etc. __ pays taxes. The Church doesn't pay taxes on the tithes or offerings of its members, but any business entity controlled by the Church operates just like its secular counterparts.

I'm always amazed by the ignorance of people who opine about these things. And why is it __ when people start spewing this garbage about the church being involved in commerical enterprises __ that we never hear a word about the hundreds of millions of dollars it has expended in humanitarian projects over the course of just the last few years?

Obviously, the church pays taxes on its' for-profit businesses.

Can you document the hundreds of millions of dollars that has been expended in humanitarian projects over the last few years? I would like to see some real numbers of direct, out of pocket costs that can be documented.

Why is it, when we hear about the hundreds of millions of dollars that the church spends on humanitarian aid, we hear nothing about the profits that are made by the Church's commercial ventures?

[_mcjathan]

I feel compelled to jump into this discussion... I waited to see if it would pass, but no luck.

As someone who is in the business of finances, money, investments, etc, I find this thread interesting. I'm 45 years old. I paid a generous tithing and offerings for 35 years. I left the church 5 years ago.

The real problem with the church's finances is not that it is too rich, or that it spends its money the wrong way, or that it has a corporate attitude. The real problem is a total lack of disclosure and accountability to its membership. Don't try to tell me that the silly auditor's report in each April's general conference is disclosure and accountability.

Disclosure and accountability tend to prevent all sorts of problems from ever happening, and tend to correct any other problems that do manage to get off the ground.

A lack of disclosure and accountability, on the other, create a perfect breeding ground for a myriad of problems: arrogance, fraud, graft, theft, nepotism, carelessness, bribery, lack of discipline, cost over-runs, etc.

I won't be surprised if sometime in the future we learn of some serious financial problems within the church that could have easily be prevented by simple disclosure and accountability.

I for one, will never, ever again voluntarily pay a single dime to an organization who is unwilling to disclose and be held accountable. It doesn't matter to me if that organization is run by the most honest & ethical people, or if I'm convinced that organization is God's own. Not a single dime without disclosure and accountability. In fact, I'm convinced that if God did have a church on earth it would practice total and complete disclosure and accountability.

[_Jason Bourne]

I don't believe in a divine Jesus, but if he were real, I have a very, very hard time imagining that he would create a large, bureaucratic structure, driven corporate values, that spend a teeny, tiny portion of its vast wealth on the needy, while investing billions in real estate, and while spending more money on helping the dead than the living.

By the way I have a real problem with your comments that the Church wastes money on the dead. You see this is simply your subjective opinion based on your disbelief. However, for those controlling the money, they believe the dead are very much real and alive. They believe that the work in temples is essential for the dead persons eternal well being. Thus based on this it is vital and crucial use of resources and not a waste at all. In many ways, due to the belief structure, it can be considered one of the best uses of the assets of the Church.