Up for mo'pologizing: 1835 edition of D&C 101:4

[_truth dancer]

Hi RH...

Well I for one didn't believe Joseph Smith had multiple women until I read Bachman's thesis.

I had always heard that women were sealed to Joseph Smith AFTER he died and that it was all anti-mormon lies, etc. etc.

But after reading Bachman I was pretty well convinced. I agree that Joseph Smith never indicated that he had multiple women but I think the evidence suggests otherwise.

However, like you I find it REALLY odd that members can believe he had multiple women and lied about it to everyone including his wife, his followers, and the world, and still believe he was a prophet of God. That doesn't work for me.

Now, in terms of offspring.

If Joseph Smith had a wife and was trying to secretly meet with other women how often do you think he could sneak away without notice? He was a very popular man, in high demand, doing all sorts of things, traveling around, in the public eye, etc. etc. Keeping this PG, lets just say he got away a couple of times a month to be with another woman or girl. With thirty three or forty others, that would be about one or two times a year. (I know there were times he did not have all of these girls and women, but there were also times when he was gone for extended periods of time so I'm just going with easy figures here). In addition, I'm pretty certain, since he was trying to keep it all a secret he would have taken precautions to not impregnate any of these girls and women. And then remember that a girl or woman can only get pregnant during a very short time of the month. The chances of Joseph Smith catching the girl or woman at the right time when he is only having sex once or twice a year with her, and having whatever precautions he was taking fail, are just really remote. Really, really remote.

Regardless, I do believe they will find evidence that Joseph Smith did indeed have a child out of wedlock. I'm quite certain of it. We may not hear about it but I think it will be found.

~dancer~

[_RockHeaded]

Hi RH...

Regardless, I do believe they will find evidence that Joseph Smith did indeed have a child out of wedlock. I'm quite certain of it. We may not hear about it but I think it will be found.

~dancer~

If they find that he had children from other woman they will not keep it secret, we'll know. But again they never will find this evidence because he didn't do it.

[_Joey]

It's also of course possible that all his marriages at the time were of the eternal and not time variety and that he in fact only had one wife.

Can you elaborate on this explanation? Are you suggesting that he was not married to Emma eternally and only to his other wives?

Since, as Smith recorded in his own journal (as recorded in the HOC), he did not receive the revelation on eternal marriage until June of 1843, how was he allowed to practice any other form of marriage other than what was contained in contained in the 1835 D&C's?

Is there any reason to assume that Smith was not being honest about when he cliamed he received the revelation contained in D&C 132 in 1843? Why does the LDS church now try and convince its members that it was received prior to the date that Smith said he received it?

Finally, if he had other wives at the command of god, why did he feel the need to lie about it to his members as opposed to just telling them and the public that it was the command of god?

Kind of a tangled web, eh?

Because as Joseph said, any time he taught anything that violated the traditions held close to the hearts of the Saints they would go bonkers. They still do. Many went nuts over the Manifesto, the 1978 Revelation, and all new doctrines and practices. The stuff coming down the pipe will soon upset the Church again and lead to a rash of defections.

Nehor,

You are the model good Mormon. Unwilling to read, understand, and accept the facts and well learned on not answering the questions. Understudy of Peterson are ya?

[_Danna]

Oooh Oooh my turn...

D&C 101: 4 does not say anything about concubines!

Other references to multiple partners in the Book of Mormon and later D&C revelations include concubines as commonplace. In the absence of specific reference to concubines in this specific text, we can assume that they were not mentioned for a reason (spelled L-O-O-P-H-O-L-E).

In fact, if one were to accept that a functioning temple was required to re-institute plural marriage proper, concubinage may have been a temporary arrangement pending completion of the Nauvoo temple (when one would assume concubines would be made full wives). So it was not Joseph Smith' fault that he didn't make it to the grand opening. And if the gentiles didn't read between the lines, tough bikkies. I am a bit shaky on the opening dates of Utah temples, so I won't go there. But, having set up in Utah and establishing the 'principle' of plural marriage of actual wives from the pulpit, amending the D&C to reflect multiple wife-taking was simply a formality.

How did I go?

I was reading last night in "Mysteries of Godliness" statements from the JoD (Young), about this very matter. This particular chapter in the book was about the second anointing and it was quoting Brigham in the JoD as saying that a temple was not necessary for sealing wives to husbands.

Bugger

[_Danna]

Hi RH...

Regardless, I do believe they will find evidence that Joseph Smith did indeed have a child out of wedlock. I'm quite certain of it. We may not hear about it but I think it will be found.

~dancer~

If they find that he had children from other woman they will not keep it secret, we'll know. But again they never will find this evidence because he didn't do it.

Not to belabor the point, but are you familiar with the arguments put forward in Mormon Enigma?? What is your opinion of their thesis that Emma was speaking in 'code' (the same as that employed by Joseph Smith, HS and others when speaking of the 'principle') when she denied Joseph's other sexual relationships?
As you have to be about the only person I have run into online who does not accept that Joseph Smith had marital relations with multiple partners, I must admit I am fascinated. You are familiar with the Temple Lot depositions? What is your take on this?

[_Boaz & Lidia]

Nehor,

You are the model good Mormon. Unwilling to read, understand, and accept the facts and well learned on not answering the questions. Understudy of Peterson are ya?

Not quite.

He has chose to ignore the counsel of Elohim and Jesus passed down through the Lord's annointed brethren by NOT getting married.

Ironically, he is living in sin.

[_bcspace]

Did the members not question their leaders about D&C 101:4 when told to take on more wives?

Sounds exactly what we have learned about the LoF. Line upon line and continuing revelation. Should we remove large portions of the Bible just because it mentions the law of Moses even though it has been fulfilled?