The Rule of Law and Morality

[_Thama]

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With the removal of God from the equation, one has to ask himself "Why be moral?" 

Why be moral with God in the equation? Many who believe in God, who have thought very, very deeply about God believe that God has elected us to heaven or hell. So why would anyone care about morality?

you might rejoined with a "But I don't believe that, I believe that God will punish us for doin bad and give us cookies for doin good, and we have our free agency."

But then we can imagine technology progressing far enough sans God to punish or reward us with longer life if we are good citizens and so on. So we might be motivated to be moral with God, but only because of secondary issues that go along with him that are possible to approximate sans him.

In my view, religions are good insofar as they are useful for bringing about positive behavior from those who would be unlikely to exhibit positive behavior without religion.

Thus, although Calvinism is logically consistent, it is also completely worthless.

Should something step in and replace this function of religion with greater efficiency, perhaps we would finally be willing to shed it. Until then...

[_Gazelam]

This last sunday, instead of a lesson we had an open discussion on this very topic. In the Doctrine and Covenants it states that to every sphere of existence there are a set of laws. That is to say the old law of cause and effect.

I think everyone has in their town the low income apartment complex full of single mothers and children with no fathers in sight. Loss of identity and structure. Lots of unsupervised time in the childrens lives. This is just one example, Im sure you can think of many others on your own, but this represents social laws that we have in our lives and in our society that represent broken laws and chaos setting in.

Religion and church are here to set us on a path of observing universal laws of virtue and strength of character that will serve us throughout all time. God is a God because he obeys universal laws by his very nature, no doubt setting himself on this path in his own mortal existence.

References are found in D&C 84, 88, and 93

[_Gadianton]

It might not always be a matter of more carrot, but lower expectations. If people really need to be promised an eternity of bliss and harp music to do a little extra in life to help people out, or to refrain from beating the hell out of them for fun, then instead of looking for bigger motivator, might want to fix the spoiled brats that need motivating. take the castle away from a princess and sure, her hopes might be dashed, and you might think, "What could we ever buy Sarah to make her happy again, a unicorn? a ferris wheel?" But she could also adjust her expectations and learn to be happy with less.

[_Gadianton]

Well Nehor, consistency counts for something.

[_Gadianton]

ok Gaz. So God is basically a "cheat sheet".

(the answers however, sure do change a lot for being "universal")

[_Moniker]

God is a God because he obeys universal laws by his very nature, no doubt setting himself on this path in his own mortal existence.

I don't understand this statement. What universal laws does God obey? Where did these laws come from?

[_Gazelam]

God is a God because he obeys universal laws by his very nature, no doubt setting himself on this path in his own mortal existence.

I don't understand this statement. What universal laws does God obey? Where did these laws come from?

I haven't got the phraseology down pat, but let me spout a few lines and maybe you can just get into my train of thought on this...

Fire is hot, and if you stick your hand in it it burns.

A sun creates a gravitational field and can have planets that orbit it.

Give a man a fish and he eats for a day, but teach him to fish and he can sustain himself for a lifetime.

A person cannot be forced to do good, they must choose to do so for themselves.

Loving your neighbor means not keping a laundry list in the back of your mind of their past misdeeds, but instead forgiving them and seeking out the best in them.

D&C 88

38 And unto every kingdom is given a law; and unto every law there are certain bounds also and conditions.

39 All beings who abide not in those conditions are not justified.

40 For intelligence cleaveth unto intelligence; wisdom receiveth wisdom; truth embraceth truth; virtue loveth virtue; light cleaveth unto light; mercy hath compassion on mercy and claimeth her own; justice continueth its course and claimeth its own; judgment goeth before the face of him who sitteth upon the throne and governeth and executeth all things.

Virtue is the key element for inviting the Spirit of God into your heart, and it is the Spirit which purifys the soul enabling it to become Celestial and capable if dwelling in the creative realm.


Did any of that make sence? Do you see the thought process involved there? Think about how a community operates when respectable and trustworthy individuals are involved as opposed to corrupt ones, and just expand on that to a universal scale. Only in the realm of God he possesses the power and authority to ensure that the corrupt cannot be a part of the proceedings.

[_Gazelam]

ok Gaz. So God is basically a "cheat sheet".

(the answers however, sure do change a lot for being "universal")

No they don't. Its like a football game. Maybe the plays change a little, but the goal line is always the same.

[_Gadianton]

I don't think you've ever read Deuteronomy.

[_Gazelam]

I don't think you've ever read Deuteronomy.

The Law of Moses is like the book that comes with your new copy of Madden football. Its not really necessary to read it if you already understand and have a feeling for the game.