New *OFFICIAL* Church Website About Polygamy

[_The Dude]

The fact that some scholarly champions would arise to defend EV thought in those journals says little about those making up the congregations and ministry to me.

Hey, scholarly champions have to make a buck too. I think it says the EV congregations and ministry are, one way or another, a source of institutional funds.

[_truth dancer]

I think they typed "NO" in a larger font this time around.

Hi TCM..

The "NO" was really large like that when I saw it for the first time yesterday, I think it looks kind of tacky.

The site just really doesn't seem up to par with other LDS sites... not by a long shot. I know it has the official information at the bottom but where is the header? The logo?

The article is very poorly worded which seems strange for an LDS site. Typically their sites are top notch.

Maybe they are just working on the site and it will take shape over time?

Regardless, it most likely will remain deceptive and misleading. :-(

Oh well...

[_Trevor]

As Beastie notes, I too may be guilty of lumping together different Evangelical groups. However, my experience comes from being born and raised in the South, where Evangelical churches are extremely common. I realize that there isn't a very agreed-upon definition of what groups are considered Evangelical and which are not, though I certainly don't mean it in the sense that Martin Luther did when he described the entire Protestant movement as being "evangelical". I'm talking about the churches with the big "Evangelical" sign out front, the sort with services only slightly exaggerated in the movie "There Will Be Blood"... I've seen services like that, and know many of the people who attend them.

Unfortunately, I don't know of another, more precise terminology to recommend here. Now that I know whom you are talking about, I can better understand the source of your disdain. I once knew a Latin teacher in the South, a non-LDS transplant from Utah, who said that what passes for Christianity in many places is more like a Bacchanal.

[Guest]

What exactly is your experience? Have you been to a meeting of the Society of Biblical Literature? Do you regularly peruse journals in the disciplines of Biblical Studies, New Testament, Theology, and Religion? I mean, I am not fond of Evangelicals either, but your characterization of these people as the equivalent of FLDS is extreme. Evangelicals are not a "lunatic fringe." They constitute a major Christian movement.

As Beastie notes, I too may be guilty of lumping together different Evangelical groups. However, my experience comes from being born and raised in the South, where Evangelical churches are extremely common. I realize that there isn't a very agreed-upon definition of what groups are considered Evangelical and which are not, though I certainly don't mean it in the sense that Martin Luther did when he described the entire Protestant movement as being "evangelical". I'm talking about the churches with the big "Evangelical" sign out front, the sort with services only slightly exaggerated in the movie "There Will Be Blood"... I've seen services like that, and know many of the people who attend them.

I don't see intellectuals there. None. There's nothing for a thinking person at a service like that. While I don't think Mormonism, Catholicism, or more mainline Protestant sects are correct in their teachings, there's at least a lot to ponder, and you see accomplished professors, doctors, etc. commonly in attendance. The fact that some scholarly champions would arise to defend EV thought in those journals says little about those making up the congregations and ministry to me.

I don't regularly read that sort of material, no, though I've conversed about religion with students and graduates of both Biola (an EV seminary in LA) and more mainstream schools, especially the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary (in Wake Forest), and the difference is stunning to me. One group seems trained in theology, the other in showmanship.

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Louisville, KY. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Wake Forrest, though. All three (SBTS, SEBTS, and BIOLA) are "EV" schools, by which I mean all are conservative Protestant schools. BIOLA is an undergraduate institution, however (originally, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles; now, Biola University), while SBTS and SEBTS are graduate divinity schools.

Just for clarification.

I realize we conversative Protestant types are naught but bumptious hicks in the eyes of the enlightened, but the seminary from which I graduated has been trying to remedy that situation by holding yearly forums with folks like John Crossan and N.T. Wright, William Demski and Michael Ruse, Daniel Dennet and Alister McGrath, and in 2009, Paul Knitter and Harold Netland.

So, remember, we're really, really trying not to be so exasperatingly idiotic.

[_Thama]

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Louisville, KY. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Wake Forrest, though. All three (SBTS, SEBTS, and BIOLA) are "EV" schools, by which I mean all are conservative Protestant schools. BIOLA is an undergraduate institution, however (originally, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles; now, Biola University), while SBTS and SEBTS are graduate divinity schools.

Just for clarification.

Interesting that you refer to all of these as Evangelical. The Biola grads I've talked to refer to themselves as Christian, and invariably add the Evangelical tag when pressed. The Southern Baptists identify themselves as Baptists.

A quick perusal of each institution's website reveals that Biola states right up front that it is "Evangelical", while the SEBTS makes no such mention, and in its self description of mission and beliefs only mentions the word "evangelical" in correlation with repentance.

If they are part of the same movement in doctrine, they certainly don't identify themselves the same way.

[_cksalmon]

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Louisville, KY. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Wake Forrest, though. All three (SBTS, SEBTS, and BIOLA) are "EV" schools, by which I mean all are conservative Protestant schools. BIOLA is an undergraduate institution, however (originally, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles; now, Biola University), while SBTS and SEBTS are graduate divinity schools.

Just for clarification.

Interesting that you refer to all of these as Evangelical.

Not really. As a graduate of NOBTS, sister school to SBTS and SEBTS, I assure you all are Evangelical--at least in the Lutheran sense you "don't" mean and in the generic sense of their being under the very broad umbrella of conservative Protestantism in America. It's an incredibly amorphous designation; it means everything, and, consequently, nothing in particular.

The Southern Baptist Convention is not a member of the National Association of Evangelicals, if that's what you mean.

If they are part of the same movement in doctrine, they certainly don't identify themselves the same way.

But, what on earth is "EV doctrine?" I confess, I have no idea.

EDIT: Then, there's the Evangelical Free Church of America, which, while claiming the name, certainly does not define the concept. But, maybe those are the churches to which you refer. I dunno.

But, I'm derailing here, I suppose.

[_Thama]

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Louisville, KY. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Wake Forrest, though. All three (SBTS, SEBTS, and BIOLA) are "EV" schools, by which I mean all are conservative Protestant schools. BIOLA is an undergraduate institution, however (originally, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles; now, Biola University), while SBTS and SEBTS are graduate divinity schools.

Just for clarification.

Interesting that you refer to all of these as Evangelical.

Not really. As a graduate of NOBTS, sister school to SBTS and SEBTS, I assure you all are Evangelical--at least in the Lutheran sense you "don't" mean and in the generic sense of their being under the very broad umbrella of conservative Protestantism in America. It's an incredibly amorphous designation; it means everything, and, consequently, nothing in particular.

The Southern Baptist Convention is not a member of the National Association of Evangelicals, if that's what you mean.

If they are part of the same movement in doctrine, they certainly don't identify themselves the same way.

But, what on earth is "EV doctrine?" I confess, I have no idea.

EDIT: Then, there's the Evangelical Free Church of America, which, while claiming the name, certainly does not define the concept. But, maybe those are the churches to which you refer. I dunno.

But, I'm derailing here, I suppose.

Wow. I knew the definition was somewhat muddled, but if you went to an Evangelical seminary and can't even define the movement or its doctrine... I had no idea the label meant so very little or so very much. :)

Where I am, in NC, being an "Evangelical" means colloquially that you are a fundamentalist (to some degree) with Pentacostal leanings in your worship style.

[_KimberlyAnn]

Where I am, in NC, being an "Evangelical" means colloquially that you are a fundamentalist (to some degree) with Pentacostal leanings in your worship style.

Yeah, that's kinda the view around Oklahoma, too. No one thinks of Presbyterians or Baptists or Episcopalians or Methodists as "Evangelical".

Personally, I tend to reserve the "Evangelical" title for the bizarre tongue-talking, arm flailing types.

KA

[_richardMdBorn]

Where I am, in NC, being an "Evangelical" means colloquially that you are a fundamentalist (to some degree) with Pentacostal leanings in your worship style.

Yeah, that's kinda the view around Oklahoma, too. No one thinks of Presbyterians or Baptists or Episcopalians or Methodists as "Evangelical".

Personally, I tend to reserve the "Evangelical" title for the bizarre tongue-talking, arm flailing types.

KA

Those are pentecostals. They generally are thought to have started with the Azusa Street Revival. You could trace evangelicals back to the reformation or to the 18th C folks like Whitfield and Wesley.

[_cksalmon]

Southern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Louisville, KY. Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary is in Wake Forrest, though. All three (SBTS, SEBTS, and BIOLA) are "EV" schools, by which I mean all are conservative Protestant schools. BIOLA is an undergraduate institution, however (originally, the Bible Institute of Los Angeles; now, Biola University), while SBTS and SEBTS are graduate divinity schools.

Just for clarification.

Interesting that you refer to all of these as Evangelical.

Not really. As a graduate of NOBTS, sister school to SBTS and SEBTS, I assure you all are Evangelical--at least in the Lutheran sense you "don't" mean and in the generic sense of their being under the very broad umbrella of conservative Protestantism in America. It's an incredibly amorphous designation; it means everything, and, consequently, nothing in particular.

The Southern Baptist Convention is not a member of the National Association of Evangelicals, if that's what you mean.

If they are part of the same movement in doctrine, they certainly don't identify themselves the same way.

But, what on earth is "EV doctrine?" I confess, I have no idea.

EDIT: Then, there's the Evangelical Free Church of America, which, while claiming the name, certainly does not define the concept. But, maybe those are the churches to which you refer. I dunno.

But, I'm derailing here, I suppose.

Wow. I knew the definition was somewhat muddled, but if you went to an Evangelical seminary and can't even define the movement or its doctrine... I had no idea the label meant so very little or so very much. :)

Where I am, in NC, being an "Evangelical" means colloquially that you are a fundamentalist (to some degree) with Pentacostal leanings in your worship style.

As I said, it means everything, and nothing at all.

I'm a Lutheran "evangelical," which, historically, deals with the nature of Protestant Christianity's proclamation that the "Church" is entered into via conscious belief in the evangelion, vis-a-vis the prior Roman Catholic belief that Christianity is merely a cultural Sitz em Leben. Or, that's my decidedly Protestant take on the matter.

I don't care a whit whether you view me as an "EV," or not. At a certain angle, I suppose I could be termed a "fundamentalist" (again, there's a lively terminological history here that would need to be addressed) but I certainly have no Pentecostal leanings. I'm actually a very High Calvinist--i.e., a Seven-Point Calvinist--which, essentially, makes me hated by typical EV's and typical atheists.

That's my "EV" doctrine. Look far and wide, but I doubt you'll find any self-respecting "Fundamentalists" or "Pentecostals" who hold to my particular beliefs.

But, yes, I'm an "EV" under the broadest rubric. More restrictive rubrics are, at this point, in America, not even possible, I'd think.