Crackpot Mormon Apologists

Post by **_Blixa** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 7:59 pm

Its funny. This stuff was standard issue back in my old ward. Nearly everyone had UFO=lost 10 tribes theories, of course there was a hole on the top of the earth where they and other translated beings lived, and Bigfoot testified to Cain, demons, you name it. Every kind of wtf? moment involved the Three Nephites. You heard it from Sunday School teachers, Seminary teachers, bishop's wives, and jr. and high school teachers who couldn't separate church and state.

It's not hard to figure out either, Mormonism has all kinds of extraneous magical and occult baggage and a history of being made up as it goes a long. Wide-ranging doctrinal incoherence was also par for the course: in my middle class ward "the gift of tongues" mentioned in the Articles of Faith was just some sober pragmatism that meant that if someday you met some Hungarian guy who was ready to be converted that exact day if only someone could testify to him in Hungarian, well then, the nearest Mormon would suddenly be fluent in Hungarian for the time it took to seal the deal. What it most certainly did NOT mean was any of that babbling claptrap those stupid ignorant hillbillies did. Of course friends of mine, in more working class wards across the valley, learned that the gift of tongues meant the sudden pouring forth of the "pure Adamic" in a babble no one could understand except a few mystical interpretors (usually women).

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:10 pm

It might be easier to construct a list of apologists who aren't crackpots...

Post by **_silentkid** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:14 pm

Blixa wrote:Nearly everyone had UFO=lost 10 tribes theories, of course there was a hole on the top of the earth where they and other translated beings lived...

So true. Check out this guy's site Our Hollow Earth. He's a Mormon hollow earth apologist. I wonder if FARMS has reviewed his book?

Post by **_moksha** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:06 pm

Post by **_EAllusion** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 9:44 pm

DCP is into the theories of both Gerald Schroeder and Paul Vitz. Both are absolutely batty. He's also into near death experiences as evidence of afterlife/spirits. There are several other examples like this. They are all pretty out there in crackpot land, but have the disadvantage of being tied directly into his religious views in some way. I think this thread is going for unrelated crankism. I'm not aware of any of that for DCP.

Post by **_Trevor** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:18 pm

EAllusion wrote:DCP is into the theories of both Gerald Schroeder and Paul Vitz. Both are absolutely batty. He's also into near death experiences as evidence of afterlife/spirits. There are several other examples like this. They are all pretty out there in crackpot land, but have the disadvantage of being tied directly into his religious views in some way. I think this thread is going for unrelated crankism. I'm not aware of any of that for DCP.

Oh, I am not sure you could say that the crankism I have listed thus far is completely "unrelated" to Mormonism. As has been pointed out, all kinds of nutbag, fringe ideas have been pulled into the orbit of Mormon folk doctrine, and I would not put it past these guys to have related it to their beliefs in some way. The most unrelated, as far as I can see, would be the UFO business, but I think we can all guess how Bigfoot, Atlantis, folk magic, and mysticism can be thought of as within the Mormon orbit by those with a strong will to believe.

Post by **_John Larsen** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:40 pm

moksha wrote:

Man, if he were a real prophet he would have used 2012 as the base year.

Post by **_Blixa** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:41 pm

Trevor wrote:
EAllusion wrote:DCP is into the theories of both Gerald Schroeder and Paul Vitz. Both are absolutely batty. He's also into near death experiences as evidence of afterlife/spirits. There are several other examples like this. They are all pretty out there in crackpot land, but have the disadvantage of being tied directly into his religious views in some way. I think this thread is going for unrelated crankism. I'm not aware of any of that for DCP.

Oh, I am not sure you could say that the crankism I have listed thus far is completely "unrelated" to Mormonism. As has been pointed out, all kinds of nutbag, fringe ideas have been pulled into the orbit of Mormon folk doctrine, and I would not put it past these guys to have related it to their beliefs in some way. The most unrelated, as far as I can see, would be the UFO business, but I think we can all guess how Bigfoot, Atlantis, folk magic, and mysticism can be thought of as within the Mormon orbit by those with a strong will to believe.

Did you not undertand that they are lost tribes? As a Jr. High Biology teacher (in class) once said, "the scriptures said "they went up!" What else could that mean???" If I were you I'd sign up for that hollow earth voyage right now.

Post by **_EAllusion** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:43 pm

Trevor wrote:
Oh, I am not sure you could say that the crankism I have listed thus far is completely "unrelated" to Mormonism. As has been pointed out, all kinds of nutbag, fringe ideas have been pulled into the orbit of Mormon folk doctrine, and I would not put it past these guys to have related it to their beliefs in some way. The most unrelated, as far as I can see, would be the UFO business, but I think we can all guess how Bigfoot, Atlantis, folk magic, and mysticism can be thought of as within the Mormon orbit by those with a strong will to believe.

I see what you are saying. All of these have some connection to Mormon thought, Bigfoot and Hollow Earth most notably. But when I think about those fringe views, I associate them first with ideas that are independent of religion, even if they are pulled into the religious views of some. Bigfoot and UFO's transcend religious apologetics quite clearly. On the other hand, the things I listed for DCP are part of religious apologetics in general. Admittedly there is some grey area here, but I think they are far enough apart to see a difference. When asking for the crackpot views of LDS apologetics, you are implicitly saying "other than their LDS apologetics." Otherwise this thread will descend into tritely pointing out each LDS apologist who buys into some crackpot LDS apologist argument. LDS apologists are crackpots by virtue of being LDS apologists.

I don't really think DCP's interest in Schroeder, Intelligent Design, or NDE's is distinct from his Mormon apologia. So I don't know if it is going to work for this thread. In any case, I'd list Paul Vitz first, since his is probably the most obviously laughably moronic.

Post by **_Bond...James Bond** » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:44 pm

Blixa wrote:Did you not undertand that they are lost tribes? As a Jr. High Biology teacher (in class) once said, "the scriptures said "they went up!" What else could that mean???" If I were you I'd sign up for that hollow earth voyage right now.

Maybe that's Nephite slang for "moving on up...[to the East Side...]

And you know what this means, Wheezy is the name of God's Wife! Oh yeah. Bullseye!