LDS Apologetics Operating Costs Are More Than $7,000,000

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Second, I don't deny being paid something like that sum. I simply deny that I was paid that sum as chairman of the board of FARMS.

Thanks for the clarification. Making "something like" $20K sounds pretty good.

If you read this thread, you will see my suggestion that what this may reflect, to a large extent, is the amount that FARMS (now the Maxwell Institute) paid to buy my time from my department so that, to that extent, I could devote myself to directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initiative (and directing the Center for the Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, which was also my province at about that time and which involved projects in Lebanon, Jordan, Italy, Mexico, and the UK) instead of teaching.

Did your salary as a professor of Islamic Studies (or whatever it is) correspondingly decrease?

I would have to go back through old materials from a decade ago in order to be certain. And I hate financial documents and, most particularly, tax materials. So I probably won't.

No need. You've already confirmed "something like" Scratch's numbers.

The opinion held of me by Mr. Scratch and Rollo isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things ....

True enough.

[_Jason Bourne]

I understant that DCPs self deprecation can be tiring and at times I wish he would drop it and reply more substantive which I know he is able to of.

Everything about me irritates, offends, outrages, and/or astonishes several on this board. Too bad.

You do not irritate, offend, cause outrage to me or astonishing me at all. I said at times your self deprecation is tiring. Sorry. It is and can be. Mostly I stick up for you here. But the flippancy you often instersperse in our posts can cause people to take to less than seriously.

Of course I'm able to respond substantively. A flat denial of Scratch's claims is about as substantive as it's possible to be. (Scratch asserts A. I reply not-A. That's directly relevant and substantive.)

As I noted.

But, it's true, I'm not going to offer up neither the Maxwell Institute's internal financial documents nor any specific financial data for Scratch's delectation. To do so would, among other things, contradict official BYU policy.

I wouldn't either. And I would be cautious as to anything I said to Scratch as he is wondereously able to distort and spin it against you later.

So I simply say that Scratch's figures, for which he has no factual basis, are dramatically wrong. I know quite exactly what the actual figures are (having seen them again just yesterday morning). It's my insider's word, based on direct personal knowledge, against Scratch's speculative word. That anybody on this list continues to imagine that Scratch's speculations might be correct while my statement is false can only, it seems to me, rest on the assumption that I'm a flat-out liar.

As noted before you even arrived on this thread I thought his assumptions were ludicrous.

[_Mister Scratch]

You *were* actually paid 20K for your apologetic works? Huh?

Huh? No. I wasn't.

You are deliberately trying to convolute the issue. Did you receive 20K for FARMS-related work? Y/N?

C'mon, Prof. P. Our discussions seldom ever have to do with actual LDS doctrine or beliefs.

We don't have "discussions."

But you're right. Your posts, as several here have commented to me via private mail, are invariably about people rather than about substantive issues.

Sort of like FARMS Review? And anyways, you know that's not true. This thread, for example, is about finances rather than any person in particular. It's true that I do sometimes key in on specific people---Ed Snow, for example---but generally speaking I am interested primarily in Mopologetics itself.

[Guest]

The opinion held of me by Mr. Scratch and Rollo isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things ....

I notice that you silently doctored the quotation above, which originally read:

The opinion held of me by Scratch Major and Scratch Minor isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things

Two likely conclusions seem plain from this:

1) You don't like being recognized as Scratch Junior.

2) You don't mind quietly tampering with data.

Actually, I just thought of a third obvious conclusion:

By accurately translating Scratch Major as "Mr. Scratch" and Scratch Minor as "Rollo," you indicate that you yourself recognize your status. LOL.

[_Daniel Peterson]

You are deliberately trying to convolute the issue. Did you receive 20K for FARMS-related work? Y/N?

Yes! In those days, before the establishment of the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, which was eventually renamed the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, all of our digitizing, multispectral imaging, and dual-language publication projects were housed within FARMS. But I did not receive 20K for work related to Mormon apologetics nor even to Mormonism.

Your posts, as several here have commented to me via private mail, are invariably about people rather than about substantive issues.

Sort of like FARMS Review?

That's a mendacious and transparently false caricature of the FARMS Review, as is obvious to anybody who actually gives serious and fair-minded attention to what the Review has published, which is all up on line.

[_Mister Scratch]

You are deliberately trying to convolute the issue. Did you receive 20K for FARMS-related work? Y/N?

Yes! In those days, before the establishment of the Institute for the Study and Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts, which was eventually renamed the Neal A. Maxwell Institute for Religious Scholarship, all of our digitizing, multispectral imaging, and dual-language publication projects were housed within FARMS. But I did not receive 20K for work related to Mormon apologetics nor even to Mormonism.

Fair enough. However, I am still confused at the discrepancy in your payment from year to year. As I already noted, your receipt of 20K seems to be atypical. In the other years, you received approximately 7K. Why the difference? Also, what were the other folks on the board doing to merit payments of 15 thousand dollars?

Your posts, as several here have commented to me via private mail, are invariably about people rather than about substantive issues.

Sort of like FARMS Review?

That's a mendacious and transparently false caricature of the FARMS Review, as is obvious to anybody who actually gives serious and fair-minded attention to what the Review has published, which is all up on line.

I've read plenty of the material in the Review. Some of it is pleasant and fair-minded, but the bulk of it is focused on people, and is aimed at destroying reputations and credibility.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Thanks for the clarification. Making "something like" $20K sounds pretty good.

You must still be in school, or have a perfectly pathetic job.

I just reviewed a copy of FARMS's Form 990 for the period July 1, 1998 to June 30, 1999, and Scratch is right: it lists you as "Board Chair" receiving compensation of $20,400 for that period of time. You are also listed as receiving $1,000 in honoraria. Grant total: $21,400.

Scratch is also right about the prior year. FARMS's Form 990 for the period July 1, 1997 to June 30, 1998, shows you, as "Board Chair," receiving $6,000 in compensation, plus $2,200 in honoraria, for a grand total of $8,200.

And who says apologia doesn't pay ....

My salary remained the same. My duties simply included less teaching and more management.

Were the figures above on top of this regular "salary"?

You've already confirmed "something like" Scratch's numbers.

Wanna know something astonishing? My salary is actually considerably larger than $20K per year! Perhaps somebody should notify the media.

Of which I have no doubt. Our tithing dollars at work ....

The opinion held of me by Mr. Scratch and Rollo isn't all that important in the grand scheme of things ....

I notice that you silently doctored the quotation above, which originally read:

You do it all the time.

You don't mind quietly tampering with data.

The data comes directly from the Form 990 filed by FARMS. Isn't public disclosure of finances great? Too bad the Church doesn't do it anymore.

[_Daniel Peterson]

I am still confused at the discrepancy in your payment from year to year. As I already noted, your receipt of 20K seems to be atypical. In the other years, you received approximately 7K. Why the difference?

I have not the faintest idea. There was no corresponding change in my overall income during those years.

Also, what were the other folks on the board doing to merit payments of 15 thousand dollars?

I know about those cases. They weren't receiving that much money for simply serving on the board.

But the details of their professional compensation are precisely none of your business.

the bulk of it is focused on people, and is aimed at destroying reputations and credibility.

That's flatly false.

*****

Well, this has been an amusing way of gearing up for the arrival of my in-laws.

Finis.

[_Rollo Tomasi]

However, I am still confused at the discrepancy in your payment from year to year. As I already noted, your receipt of 20K seems to be atypical. In the other years, you received approximately 7K. Why the difference?

This may have something to do with FARMS's tremendous investment income in 1998: over $478K (whereas the year before shows a loss).

[_Daniel Peterson]

My salary remained the same. My duties simply included less teaching and more management.

Were the figures above on top of this regular "salary"?

Mostly no. I did receive some extra compensation for serving as board chairman (which consumed ten to twenty hours a week during the difficult period of our merger with BYU), but never anything remotely approaching $20K.

When are you going to post data about your income and finances? I'm not interested, but Scratch probably would be.