Kerry Shirts hits one out of the park

[_Jersey Girl]

Hello All,

I haven't read the board for nearly 2 weeks until just this morning when I took a look at some of the threads and noticed Porter's thread regarding Kerry Shirts "Kerry Shirts Loses it on You tube". I read the thread and then used the link in the OP. The link in the OP links to the last video in a 3 part series and curiously, the only link used in the OP had something to do with criticism of Deseret Books. Most of the posts on the thread had something to do either with mocking Kerry or commenting on Deseret Books. I don't know why people so cavalierly mock someone based on a 10 minute video they've seen or worse, fail to watch the video at all and instead just use the OP as a jumping off point to mock others.

I have to say, that it always bothers me when people take something out of context and embellish it beyond recognition, thus the reason for this new thread of mine.

Apparently, no one on the thread took time to view the three videos in sequence, which is what I did.

Without listing these in "parts" as per the videos, I'd like to share some of the commentary in Kerry's videos that begin with this first video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXo7U1i9GXA&feature=related

I have to say first, that if you took Mormonism entirely out of Kerry's commentary, I could have written the script to the video series myself for his philosophy reflects my own and always has. Here goes my attempt at a review having just left the last video with notes.

He begins with a response to emails and public comments on his youtube channel by explaining why he creates the videos. His intention is to provoke thought. He recognizes that deep scripture study (that includes cultural context, archaeology, languages, symbolism, etc.) is not taught in churches. (This mirrors my own criticism of EV churches as well). He admits that our knowledge is incomplete (even within our own field of expertise) and that information and knowledge can come from all types of sources even those outside of the religion we adhere to.

Kerry thinks that (LDS) people who wish to extend their knowledge of scripture, should take the best of Mormon Prophets, Apostles and connect them to the best of Biblical Scholarship. (He means scholars outside of Mormonism). That when we "learn together" (pool our resources) we gain a better context of scriptural knowledge and says "How could it not be?"

In all three of these videos Kerry essentially encourages people (not just LDS however, he appears to be speaking to a primarily LDS viewership in these 3 videos) to seek out the best of scholarship from Mormonism, Judaism, Methodists, Catholics, Lutherans and Calvanists.

Kerry also subscribes to the philosophy (exact duplicate of my own) that God teaches in ways that people are able to understand. What he's putting forth there is that there is truth to be found from other religious sources including those that come from outside of Mormonism. And that just because something people hear isn't Mormon doctrine, doesn't mean it's not true and that Mormon's couldn't possibly have the entire truth because (within the framework of LDS belief) only a portion of the Gold Plates were translated and revealed to mankind. (I don't subscribe to his belief in the Gold Plates, but I completely share the philosophy he's expounding here.)

He discusses what he believes "the truth" really is. That he believes that "the truth is love" and that "love is wisdom".

Kerry thinks that we all have something valuable to share with eachother. "Everyone in the world is smarter than you at something".

Absolutely true.

With regards to conversion. He believes (as I do) that our sole intent in sharing information, knowledge and faith with others shouldn't be to convert eachother but to love eachother in the interaction. He believes that God does the converting, not us.

He gives a description of his recent visit to a Deseret Book Store and this is in the 3rd video that Porter linked to in his OP on the other thread.

"1 shelf of really good references on the Scriptures"

"13 Shelves of crafty crap and junk for sale"

"6 shelves of LDS novels"

And is essentially appalled that LDS bookstores are filled with "dime store novels" instead of good scholarly resources.


Given that description, can anyone argue with that?

One final quote from Kerry:

If you're only comfortable in studying things from your own little paradigm and world within Mormonism and you're terrified to see what anyone else says or learn, then you're going to remain narrow."

So there you have it folks. Best I could do on short notice. I agree with every single point he raised.

And you?

Jersey Girl

[_moksha]

I think Shirts delivers a good message to LDS people to be more open minded toward what other religions have to offer and not be arrogant in dimissing their scholarship.

[_Jersey Girl]

I think Shirts delivers a good message to LDS people to be more open minded toward what other religions have to offer and not be arrogant in dimissing their scholarship.

I do too, mok. One of the ideas that Kerry consistently forwards besides studying outside of one's religion is that religions are interconnected and one of my own criticisms regarding EV's is that we don't understand (and are too lazy to study) the roots of Judaism or Judaism itself when our own religion grew from it. Certainly it follows that studying Judaism would expand our understanding and give deeper meaning to Christianity. While Kerry claims no expertise at all, he does invest an enormous amount of personal time in searching the languages, as well as other sources, in an attempt to unfold the deeper meaning of scripture.

He knows that a lifetime isn't enough for one person to gain a full understanding of scripture however, he devotes much of himself in an effort toward greater understanding. While I do not typically agree with his apologetic conclusions, I completely respect the effort, the devotion and the journey he's on.

[_Runtu]

I didn't listen to Kerry's 3-part video (I don't have the time or inclination). My only comment was that the part I saw was rather odd, and Kerry seemed to have worked himself into a lather by that point. If that makes me superficial, so be it.

I've known Kerry a long time, and I like him. I think he does better in print than in video.

[_Mad Viking]

...He discusses what he believes "the truth" really is. That he believes that "the truth is love" and that "love is wisdom"...

So, the truth is love... and... love is... wisdom... so, truth must be equal to wisdom. So... if I have wisdom... then I have the truth? Eureka!!

[_Jersey Girl]

I didn't listen to Kerry's 3-part video (I don't have the time or inclination). My only comment was that the part I saw was rather odd, and Kerry seemed to have worked himself into a lather by that point. If that makes me superficial, so be it.

I've known Kerry a long time, and I like him. I think he does better in print than in video.

I have to say I'm somewhat astonished by your remarks, Runtu. Here you admit to viewing a "part" of presumably one video out of something on the order of 400 videos on his website and based on that few minutes of viewing, you forward the assessment that he doesn't do as well in video than he does in print.

Why do you do that?

Porter's OP struck me as odd to begin with as well as many of the follow up comments. There are people on this board who obviously have the time to devote to making thousands of posts and yet, they think nothing of assessing another human being based on a few minutes of viewing.

I seriously don't understand that mindset.

I don't think that makes you or others superficial. I think it makes your treatment of another human being superficial.

And I don't understand it.

This board is dominated by ex-Mo's who researched their way out of Mormonism. Kerry's 3 part video series encourages Mormons (and others) to study and learn, to expand their knowledge, to search out resources outside of their own church

and that gleans criticism.

How does that make sense?

[_Runtu]

I have to say I'm somewhat astonished by your remarks, Runtu. Here you admit to viewing a "part" of presumably one video out of something on the order of 400 videos on his website and based on that few minutes of viewing, you forward the assessment that he doesn't do as well in video than he does in print.

Why do you do that?

Jersey Girl, I can't count how many of Kerry's videos I've watched. I didn't watch the three-part video pointed to, but I have seen many others from Kerry. I'm not slamming him, just saying that I like his written stuff better, and no, I don't think he has a good video presence. You seem to think I'm making a snap judgment based on five minutes' viewing. As I said, I've known Kerry a very long time (13 years, as near as I can figure).

Porter's OP struck me as odd to begin with as well as many of the follow up comments. There are people on this board who obviously have the time to devote to making thousands of posts and yet, they think nothing of assessing another human being based on a few minutes of viewing.

I seriously don't understand that mindset.

I don't think that makes you or others superficial. I think it makes your treatment of another human being superficial.

And I don't understand it.

You're making an unfounded judgment based on one post I have made. I do not and never have made an assessment of Kerry as a human being based on that one video clip. I like Kerry, I have interacted with him over a long period of time, and I don't think we've ever had anything other than pleasant and friendly exchanges. If you want to believe that I dismissed him (or, worse, attacked him) based on my sincere feeling that he doesn't come across well in video, have at it.

This board is dominated by ex-Mo's who researched their way out of Mormonism. Kerry's 3 part video series encourages Mormons (and others) to study and learn, to expand their knowledge, to search out resources outside of their own church and that gleans criticism.

How does that make sense?

In what way was I criticizing Kerry? I said just what I thought: he seemed to have worked himself into a lather, and it was an odd video. I stand by that. It doesn't mean I don't appreciate what Kerry has to say. But I would much rather read it than watch it.

[_Jersey Girl]

Runtu,

I only have the comments you put on this board (specifically the two Kerry youtube threads) to base my own conclusion on. If I misunderstood, I apologize to you.

[_Runtu]

Runtu,

I only have the comments you put on this board (specifically the two Kerry youtube threads) to base my own conclusion on. If I misunderstood, I apologize to you.

I'm sorry if my comments about Kerry's video were interpreted as an attack. I certainly didn't intend them to be.

[_Droopy]

He discusses what he believes "the truth" really is. That he believes that "the truth is love" and that "love is wisdom".

This reminds me of the kind of stuff the late Bruce Lee used to come up with, such as 'To change with change is the changeless state".

To anyone with the critical, intellectual faculties that Kerry has always extolled, one could be excused for treating the above as what has commonly come to be known as "psychobabble".

Kerry is a very, very smart and deeply self educated guy. I deeply respect that. He's also become, in my opinion, rather, well, eccentric over the years and his various philosophical views should be subjected to the very same substantive intellectual scrutiny he claims as his core, guiding principle. They should also be subjected to a thorough inspection in light of settled Gospel teachings and tried by the Spirit. Not all of that which Lord Kerry holds forth as gold will be, I predict, found to be of that element.

I've watched Kerry, to the extent I've watched him from my perch in cyberspace, lurch form one extreme to another over the years, and end by involving himself in some rather odd and questionable views regarding the Gospel and its setting within the larger context of comparative religion and religious experience.

The reason Jersey Girl likes the sweet New Agish bromides Kerry sometimes produces is because she thinks its a philosophy that exempts her from asking the "terrible questions" that the restored Gospel of Jesus Christ challenges us to ask and claims to have the answers to. I actually don't think Kerry is supporting the "many paths to God" concept so beloved of Boomer era searchers for meaning, but that appears to be how she has taken it.

Note: the idea here that in our relationships and discussions we are not to try to convert others is utterly inconsistent with the scriptures and Church teaching, as this is, in point of fact, a commandment and mandate from Jesus Christ. That we do not convert through our argumentation, but that the Spirit does the converting, is given. We, however, are the instruments in God's hands to this end, and have been commanded and sent out into the world to do precisely this, with "a witness and a warning" to the world. We are to be proactive and clear in this aspect of our discipleship, not evasive or surreptitious.







All will come out in the great cosmic laundry, in the end, however.