How Many Here Would Vote For The Following candidates,

[_Angus McAwesome]

1. What is a "real liberal"?

You can go with either classical liberalism or American liberalism. Both stress individual liberalism and limited government, with American liberalism seeking to achieve this through freedom of coercion and social issues like education of civil rights.

2. The present, post McGovern Democrat Party, were a general description of it to be given, would probably best be described as an indigenous Fabian Socialist party, with tinges of more extreme neo-Marxist and traditional Marxist ideology influencing some of its membership (Abzug, Dellums, Conyers, Sanders, Obama, Hayden etc.).

BS. Show me a clear link between Marxism and DNC policy.

The modern Democratic Party is the institutional, poliitcal face of the counter culture.

No, the modern Democratic party is basically Republican Lite with a smattering of socialism for liberal street cred. They haven't been actual Liberals since Jack and Bobby Kennedy got wacked.

[Guest]

b***s***. Show me a clear link between Marxism and DNC policy.

Social Security, universal health care, high, progressive tax rates, its core belief in redistribution of wealth, the public school system, outcome based education, Affirmative Action, its long standing class warfare platform and ideology, its long and virulent hostility to religion, its aggressive hostility to the family and traditional marriage, its belief in environmental determinism, its belief in and faith in government as the engine and source of human happiness and economic progress, its hostility to the individual and individual achievement outside of the confines of government control or sponsorship, its attempt to seek political solutions to core problems of the human condition through state action and coercive force, its utopian pretensions and sentiments, and its general statolatry.

No, the modern Democratic party is basically Republican Lite with a smattering of socialism for liberal street cred. They haven't been actual Liberals since Jack and Bobby Kennedy got wacked.

The modern Republican Party is the Democratic Party lite, and the Democratic Party is a leftist party. The "liberals" you mention are actually known today as "conservatives" and have a sibling known as "Libertarian".

[_Angus McAwesome]

Social Security, universal health care, high, progressive tax rates, its core belief in redistribution of wealth, the public school system, outcome based education, Affirmative Action, its long standing class warfare platform and ideology, its long and virulent hostility to religion, its aggressive hostility to the family and traditional marriage, its belief in environmental determinism, its belief in and faith in government as the engine and source of human happiness and economic progress, its hostility to the individual and individual achievement outside of the confines of government control or sponsorship, its attempt to seek political solutions to core problems of the human condition through state action and coercive force, its utopian pretensions and sentiments, and its general statolatry.

So basically anything that isn't in line with your personal definition of good conservative thought is "Marxist", even though classical and American liberalism draw their roots from people like von Mises and Adam Smith. While in some flavors of Liberalism you may find a few similarities on socialism with Marxism, the two are completely different ideologies, dumbass.

Repeat after me...

Socialism is not Marxism...

Socialism is not Marxism...

Drippy LaDouche is a giant tool...

Socialism is not Marxism.

The modern Republican Party is the Democratic Party lite, and the Democratic Party is a leftist party. The "liberals" you mention are actually known today as "conservatives" and have a sibling known as "Libertarian".

So basically your entire argument is "Nuh uh" and saying the exact opposite of what I said. And you wonder why most people on this board think you're a friggin' moron...

[_Droopy]

So basically anything that isn't in line with your personal definition of good conservative thought is "Marxist",

Anything who's philosophical patrimony or psychological ground can be traced to Marxist thought or attitudes, is Marxian, including policies and ideas derived directly from it.

even though classical and American liberalism draw their roots from people like von Mises and Adam Smith. While in some flavors of Liberalism you may find a few similarities on socialism with Marxism, the two are completely different ideologies, dumbass.

Repeat after me...

Socialism is not Marxism...

Socialism is not Marxism...

Drippy LaDouche is a giant tool...

Socialism is not Marxism.

This is too philosophically and historically convoluted to work through here. Indeed, probably impossible.

In any case, the concepts of universal, free public education and steep, progressive tax rates can be found in the Communist Manifesto, as can be the hostility to religion, the family, and traditional marriage.

[_Some Schmo]

Wow... you'll admit to anything.

I always give it to you straight up.

Just when I thought you couldn't have any less credibility, you post the above. How funny.

Real credibility is based on evidence.

So is lack of credibility, which is why I said about you what I did.

I see you have none......

Coming from you, that's a huge compliment. Thanks!

[_Angus McAwesome]

This is too philosophically and historically convoluted to work through here. Indeed, probably impossible.

It's called "Take out a loan and get an education", Drippy.

In any case, the concepts of universal, free public education and steep, progressive tax rates can be found in the Communist Manifesto,

Funny, I can find all of those concepts in works that predate the Communist Manifesto, which would mean that such concepts aren't the exclusive to Communism by any means. Seriously, do you even know what Marxist Communism is, moron?

[_Mahonri]

"Indeed. At least Bush did the right thing in Iraq and Afghanistan"

How is attacking Iraq, a country that was no threat to the US, the 'right thing'? They had a few SCUD missiles with a range just over 90 miles. What were they going to do, launch them towards Miami and pray to Allah for a tailwind?

Bush is a murderer and a warmonger, an international Criminal who should be tried by the World Court for his crimes. The US is an invading nation financing an Army of Occupation. We still have not declared WAR on Iran or Afghanistan though we occupy both countries. Afghanistan 'may' have some justification if you stretch it. Iraq has none. We are nothing more than invaders and murderers as a Nation now. NO moral high ground as our leaders kill and torture with impunity and in apparent safety with fools who support them.

[_Droopy]

"Indeed. At least Bush did the right thing in Iraq and Afghanistan"

How is attacking Iraq, a country that was no threat to the US, the 'right thing'? They had a few SCUD missiles with a range just over 90 miles. What were they going to do, launch them towards Miami and pray to Allah for a tailwind?

Bush is a murderer and a warmonger, an international Criminal who should be tried by the World Court for his crimes. The US is an invading nation financing an Army of Occupation. We still have not declared WAR on Iran or Afghanistan though we occupy both countries. Afghanistan 'may' have some justification if you stretch it. Iraq has none. We are nothing more than invaders and murderers as a Nation now. NO moral high ground as our leaders kill and torture with impunity and in apparent safety with fools who support them.

Do you have any education beyond your reading of Chomski books and the People's Weekly World?

[_Angus McAwesome]

"Indeed. At least Bush did the right thing in Iraq and Afghanistan"

How is attacking Iraq, a country that was no threat to the US, the 'right thing'? They had a few SCUD missiles with a range just over 90 miles. What were they going to do, launch them towards Miami and pray to Allah for a tailwind?

Bush is a murderer and a warmonger, an international Criminal who should be tried by the World Court for his crimes. The US is an invading nation financing an Army of Occupation. We still have not declared WAR on Iran or Afghanistan though we occupy both countries. Afghanistan 'may' have some justification if you stretch it. Iraq has none. We are nothing more than invaders and murderers as a Nation now. NO moral high ground as our leaders kill and torture with impunity and in apparent safety with fools who support them.

Do you have any education beyond your reading of Chomski books and the People's Weekly World?

So says the raving dumbass that thinks communism and socialism are the same thing...

[_GoodK]

"Indeed. At least Bush did the right thing in Iraq and Afghanistan"

How is attacking Iraq, a country that was no threat to the US, the 'right thing'? They had a few SCUD missiles with a range just over 90 miles. What were they going to do, launch them towards Miami and pray to Allah for a tailwind?

Bush is a murderer and a warmonger, an international Criminal who should be tried by the World Court for his crimes. The US is an invading nation financing an Army of Occupation. We still have not declared WAR on Iran or Afghanistan though we occupy both countries. Afghanistan 'may' have some justification if you stretch it. Iraq has none. We are nothing more than invaders and murderers as a Nation now. NO moral high ground as our leaders kill and torture with impunity and in apparent safety with fools who support them.

With all due respect, I have to emphatically disagree.

I suggest the following article - http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1015766/posts

The question then, becomes this: Should the date or timing of this unpostponable confrontation have been left to Saddam Hussein to pick?