LDS Apologetics Operating Costs Are More Than $7,000,000

[_Jersey Girl]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

[_skippy the dead]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

Try it and see!

[_Jason Bourne]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

Yes

[_Rollo Tomasi]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

Yes. Here are the direct links to all three Form 990's we've been discussing:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://204.203.220.33/EINS/953442860/95 ... 006318.pdf

[_Yoda]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

Yes. Here are the direct links to all three Form 990's we've been discussing:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://204.203.220.33/EINS/953442860/95 ... 006318.pdf

Thanks for the links, Rollo.

Since these are pdf files, it's not letting me copy/paste portions here. If you take a look at this link:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf

and scroll down to Compensation of Officers, you will notice that all of these folks appear to be BYU employees.

This seems to lead quite easily into the theory that Jason and I came up with, and may be why DCP honestly doesn't realize that he was compensated in this way. If the school simply "loaned" him for those hours, he would have just received his normal paycheck.

[_antishock8]

Second, I don't deny being paid something like that sum. I simply deny that I was paid that sum as chairman of the board of FARMS.

God. You weasle.

To recap:

We go from "not one dime" and a "shoestring budget" to a salaried position with BYU pumping out apologia, and tens of thousands of dollars in additional payments via FARMS/MI, an organization that rakes in millions.

I don't know how a faithful Mormon could look at this and stomach it. Shameful lying hypocrits.

[_guy sajer]

Corrupt to the core? Is that your interpretation? Interesting. Personally, I did not get the sense that you were being accused of utter corruption. Perhaps excessive zeal in a cause you deeply believe in. Are there reasonable people on this board? I think so. I am rather impressed with Jason Bourne and Ray A, to name only two of many. The unreasonable people are few and very vocal. Then there are a few who are completely inane. Interestingly, they all reside on both sides of the issue, and I think most everyone would agree that you are not corrupt to the core. Maybe a little strange, and perhaps overzealous, but corrupt to the core? Now who's exaggerating?

I certainly don't think that Dan is corrupt to the core. I don't think he's corrupt at all.

But of course it is important for Dan to think that we think he is corrupt to the core. That way he can belittle and dismiss anything and everything we say and then run over to his lickspittles over at MAD to claim how woefully he's been treated here and what silly ninnies we really are.

I think, Dan, that if you pay even a smidgeon of attention, you'll find that we don't kiss Scratch's arse on this board to the same extent your acolytes on MAD kiss yours.

Perhaps you're so used to fawning, slobbering yes-men, that you think it's the norm elsewhere.

[_Mister Scratch]

Is it this?

www.guidestar.org

Yes. Here are the direct links to all three Form 990's we've been discussing:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf
http://204.203.220.33/EINS/953442860/95 ... 006318.pdf

Thanks for the links, Rollo.

Since these are pdf files, it's not letting me copy/paste portions here. If you take a look at this link:

http://www.guidestar.org/FinDocuments/1 ... 60-1-9.pdf

and scroll down to Compensation of Officers, you will notice that all of these folks appear to be BYU employees.

This seems to lead quite easily into the theory that Jason and I came up with, and may be why DCP honestly doesn't realize that he was compensated in this way. If the school simply "loaned" him for those hours, he would have just received his normal paycheck.

Liz---

I am grateful to have you and Jason Bourne participating in this thread. I think that the two of you have been extraordinarily generous and decent-minded in your comments.

Still, I have to note yet again that what you are positing is, at best, merely theoretical in nature. There is no evidence that DCP was "bought out" by BYU. The evidence we've got states, in plain, signed-under-oath English, that DCP was paid up to $20,000 for being Chair of the FARMS board. Further, no explanation has been given for the year-to-year differences in payment for the Chair position. Rollo hypothesized that it may have had to do with FARMS's solid year investment-wise. I also wonder about all of this since FARMS was in a transitional state during this time. It was not yet "officially" a part of BYU, and in fact the terms of the merger were under discussion.

Finally, I once again have to wonder about this "Buying time from BYU" theory. *What*, exactly, was being "bought"? Perhaps Guy Sajer or some other person familiar with BYU can weigh in on how people get paid at BYU. That way the odd variance in FARMS Chair compensation might make a little more sense. Are Profs. paid per class? And would each class have been worth approximately $4,000 per semester back in the late 1990s?

[_Daniel Peterson]

There is no evidence that DCP was "bought out" by BYU.

Scratch/Hack discounts the fact that I've repeatedly said that I was.

The evidence we've got states, in plain, signed-under-oath English, that DCP was paid up to $20,000 for being Chair of the FARMS board.

Which I flatly deny.

Finally, I once again have to wonder about this "Buying time from BYU" theory. *What*, exactly, was being "bought"?

As I've explained several times, my time was being bought so that I could spend a certain portion of it directing the Center for the Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (a portion of what was then called FARMS and what is now called the Maxwell Institute) and directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initative (another portion of what was then FARMS and is now the Maxwell Institute) in lieu of teaching.

Perhaps Guy Sajer or some other person familiar with BYU can weigh in on how people get paid at BYU. That way the odd variance in FARMS Chair compensation might make a little more sense. Are Profs. paid per class?

No. But part-time instructors are. Still, for purposes of buying a professor's time, some sort of per-class formula would be used.

And would each class have been worth approximately $4,000 per semester back in the late 1990s?

I have no idea. I've never been particularly interested in such matters. The fact is that, while a portion of my salary was being paid from FARMS (the Maxwell Institute) at that time rather than by the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages, my salary remained unchanged overall.

On top of my salary, I was paid a $3K annual fee as a member of the board, and, on top of that, I was paid a $3K annual board chairman's fee for the duration of the time I served as chairman of the board -- a total of $6K per annum. Never $16K or $20K per year.

[_Mister Scratch]

There is no evidence that DCP was "bought out" by BYU.

Scratch/Hack discounts the fact that I've repeatedly said that I was.

1) Who is "Hack"?
2) Where has your word been established as Grade-A Truth? I'm sorry, Prof. P., but my past experience with you, such as your "Free Thinker" deception, marks your "word" as somewhat less than 100% reliable. I'd like to believe you, just for the sake of being nice, but, then again, you don't supply evidence when asked.

The evidence we've got states, in plain, signed-under-oath English, that DCP was paid up to $20,000 for being Chair of the FARMS board.

Which I flatly deny.

All I can do is shake my head. It is right there in plain English. For anyone to see. Shall we post it on RfM as well?

Finally, I once again have to wonder about this "Buying time from BYU" theory. *What*, exactly, was being "bought"?

As I've explained several times, my time was being bought so that I could spend a certain portion of it directing the Center for the Preservation of Ancient Religious Texts (a portion of what was then called FARMS and what is now called the Maxwell Institute) and directing and editing the Middle Eastern Texts Initative (another portion of what was then FARMS and is now the Maxwell Institute) in lieu of teaching.

Produce the evidence. What you are saying does not fit with what the official, signed forms say.

Perhaps Guy Sajer or some other person familiar with BYU can weigh in on how people get paid at BYU. That way the odd variance in FARMS Chair compensation might make a little more sense. Are Profs. paid per class?

No. But part-time instructors are. Still, for purposes of buying a professor's time, some sort of per-class formula would be used.

Then what was the formula?

And would each class have been worth approximately $4,000 per semester back in the late 1990s?

I have no idea. I've never been particularly interested in such matters. The fact is that, while a portion of my salary was being paid from FARMS (the Maxwell Institute) at that time rather than by the Department of Asian and Near Eastern Languages, my salary remained unchanged overall.

Oh? You've "never been particular interested in such matters"? Then drop out and concede! The IRS was told that you made over $20,000 as the "Chair" of FARMS. Nowhere does it say anything about you working for these various other roles you are claiming.

On top of my salary, I was paid a $3K annual fee as a member of the board, and, on top of that, I was paid a $3K annual board chairman's fee for the duration of the time I served as chairman of the board -- a total of $6K per annum. Never $16K or $20K per year.

LOL!!! Well, at last you are finally admitting that you were getting paid on top of your salary. Gee, how hard was *THAT*??? And, anyways, the tax forms don't lie.