Mahonri wrote:On a mission you did not go swimming because Satan controls the waters.
In pre and WWII Germany Satan apparently ruled and influenced Hitler. while the LDS church reached accomodation with him and was not persecuted. The Jehovah Witnesses refused to accomodate the Nazis and were actively persecuted. During this time of imprisonment and execution, their numbers increased, to the point they even converted some of the SS guards and executioners.
LDS Persecution? A figment of the imagination compared to the Jews in Germany and still around the world. If LDS, Inc were faced with Hamas, Hezbollah, Palestinians, and all the forces of the Middle East against them in real persecution they would be running away fast once again.
Yeah, and we'd probably be a more righteous people too. Oh well, enough wishful thinking.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
How does one determine the level of persecution? This seems pretty relative to me. Body count? There are religions, religious-genres, ethnicities, or whatever that far exceed the numbers of Jews killed by the Nazis. Do we measure persecution as political oppression? Social stigma (the Mormons may have a case there)?
That being said, until Mormons are being killed en masse, forcibly dislocated and moved, interned in re-education camps, forced to pay jizya, or enslaved I'm not sure their bitching is anything more than then result of the Mormon PR machine reaping its own efforts at convincing Mo's they're persecuted "mightily".
antishock8 wrote:How does one determine the level of persecution? This seems pretty relative to me. Body count? There are religions, religious-genres, ethnicities, or whatever that far exceed the numbers of Jews killed by the Nazis. Do we measure persecution as political oppression? Social stigma (the Mormons may have a case there)?
That being said, until Mormons are being killed en masse, forcibly dislocated and moved, interned in re-education camps, forced to pay jizya, or enslaved I'm not sure their bitching is anything more than then result of the Mormon PR machine reaping its own efforts at convincing Mo's they're persecuted "mightily".
I think this whole discussion is misguided. Although believing LDS do occasionally speak of members of their faith who suffered from persecution, the underlying assumption is always that the *Kingdom* will eventually triumph over all its enemies. You know, the whole idea of the rolling stone crushing all opposition as it proceeds in its ordained course?
Rather than bemoaning persecution of believers, faithful and thoughtful LDS are more inclined to feel sorry for people like the apostates here who will surely be among those "crushed to powder" by the stone *cut without hands*. When He says *vengeance is mine and I shall repay*, you folks are among those He has in mind:
... I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
... I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
Gruesome enough to delight believers who are PO'd that apostates tell them how stupid their religion is.
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
... I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment.
Gruesome enough to delight believers who are PO'd that apostates tell them how stupid their religion is.
It's a warning to apostates, not a call to glee. There are warnings in scriptures about those who rejoice in calamities and vengeance.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo