Gaz advocates death by blood atonement for Chad Hardy?

[_Yong Xi]

Ray A,

How will these people be resurrected? Do you think that men will be resurrected as women in some cases, or vice versa?

Apparently these "people" are going to the telestial kingdom. There will be no procreation, hence no need for genitalia. I believe this was the belief of Joseph Fielding Smith. They will be resurrected as neither man nor woman. I have read that in place of genitalia will be a TK Smoothie.

[_Jersey Girl]

Now, let me be a bit crude here. Do you ever have any trouble determining, just from mannerisms and expressions, whether some people are gay? I can't always tell it, but in some cases it's like a bull in a China shop. That "empirical observation", along with the scientific studies, persuades me that they're not acting. I think of a neighbourhood friend who everyone "knew" was gay, but he never came out until a few years ago. Today he lives with his boyfriend. Do you think any of us who knew him from a kid thought this was totally strange? Nay, we expected this outcome.

I don't know quite how to answer that, Ray. I've never knowingly known anyone who was gay in real life and only corresponded with a couple of gay male posters from the boards who projected two very different personality types. But I understand what you're saying. I have seen people (both male and female) in public whom I speculated were gay based on observation and no, I don't believe they were acting.

I do think there is some validity to the idea of eroticizing early same sex experiences for certain individuals and my "gut" tells me that sexual orientation is biological for others. I don't think there's one correct answer to the origins of same sex orientation.

[_Jersey Girl]

Blathering on here...one thing that worries me about what Gaz has presented is how he would interact with homosexuals in real life either socially or professionally and how he, via example, would teach his children to interact with homosexuals.

Gaz, weigh in here on that, okay?

Editing for more blather: Gaz, I'm pretty sure you'd teach your children that persons who actively engage in homosexual behavior are sinning. How would you convey to your children, the idea of "hating the sin not the sinner" when deep inside, you condone cutting them and letting them bleed out? How do you square that? How do you look into your kids' eyes and explain that under certain circumstances it's okay to kill another human being because they can be saved on account of vicarious baptism?

Heck, I'd like to see you look into my eyes and square that.

[_ludwigm]

Jersey,

What do you mean law of chastity? What if the gay persons are legally married?

You already know what the law of chastity is. Marriage is between a Man and a Woman only, as the First Presidency has stated in their official declaration.

Sometimes, as past prophets had stated in their revelations - which are stronger than official declarations, I think - marriage is between one Man and many Woman, (for the womans it is with two man, one for time, another for eternity). As far as I remember, the FP use the expression as "one man and one woman".

We can use different definitions of "marriage" ( of "gospel", of "saint", of "just war", of "true scotsman" ).
Any definition can be unusable, if one defines it and the other doesn't accept it.

[_Ray A]

I don't think there's one correct answer to the origins of same sex orientation.

I don't, either, Jersey Girl. But I do think that the scientific evidence in this regard is fairly persuasive, coupled with observation. If there's no one correct answer to sexual orientation, then there should be no "one correct answer" in regard to the "eternal fate" of such people.

But look at any fundie website, and we'd have to conclude that all gay people meet the express disapproval and condemnation of God, who will meet eternal hellfire if they don't repent, or keep at bay such dispositions. Now that is a superb example of sound reasoning by The Flat Earth Society. Or The Fake Moon-Landing.

[_Ray A]

Are pedophiles born that way? Are furries born that way? Are swingers born that way? Are guys that like to get defacated on by hookers born that way?

The development of sexual fetishes can mostly be traced to environment. What occurs in earliest memory can be linked to early experiences. You might, for example, have a heterosexual who thinks that being defecated on by hookers is a turn on, or swingers who think that watching their partner have sex with someone else is a turn on, but this doesn't alter their basic sexual orientation. There are Gays who are pedophiles, and there are heterosexuals who are pedophiles, neither of which meet with community approval, and nor should it. The idea that masturbation leads to homosexuality belongs right there with Old Wives' Tales, yet this has been seriously advocated by some Church leaders. If this was the case, then at least half my missionary companions should now be Gay. This idea is just too ridiculous to entertain, and it has nothing to do with scientific studies into the way the brain works.

[_moksha]

Ren,

You really do see this as a reasonable response. Don't you. You aren't kidding...

In the case of the unrepentant member? Yes....

You are a sick dude and scary, if you really believe this.

Blood atonement was another wild eyed idea from BY, like AG, that never really had anything to do with God.

Talking about murdering Homosexuals in some sort of blood atonement ceremony is completely unacceptable. It portrays Mormons
as homicidal zealots, which they are not. This is simply some sort of anomaly tied solely to Gaz and its etiology in unknown.

.

[Guest]

I am curious if Gaz has made these homicidal feelings known to his wife. How about your inlaws which you are visiting? I wonder if his wife even knows about Blood Atonement? Heck, I bet his wife is the typical garden variety Mormon.

We know damn sure he is not allowed to espouse such heinous feelings to his fellow members in GD class, EQ, or SM.

Can you imagine Gaz starting his talk in SM with "Why all unrepentant homosexuals should be killed by slitting their throats and pulling up their heads so the blood will spurt out upon the ground", as he opens up one of his favorite JoD volumes...

Gaz, gotta ask... If you believe in this doctrine of BY which has been denounced by presidents and leaders who followed him, may I ask which other doctrines of BY do you also believe in? Adam God? Blacks? The cave inside of the Hill Cumorah in NY? Polygamy being a requirement for deification? Others?

Why or why not?

[_Sethbag]

To my understanding it exists solely in a time of a religious government. An unrepentant person who has made covenants to their God and is actively seeking to tear down the church and or tear down doctrines and promote an unchaste lifestyle is taken and executed in order to save their own souls. (As I stated before)

I can't remember if this is an actual ordinance. I only studied it out once, and you know how good my memory is. I believe it involves a pre-dug grave, and the persons throught is slit and they are to bleed out before burial.
Gaz

Another great reason, if we needed any more, to avoid religious governments like the plague. Gaz, it's hard to believe that people have surrendered their minds to such an evil charade to the extent that you have. Unless you're just having a laugh. The sick thing is, it's impossible to tell with you.

You're the Mormon version of Mullah Omar or Osama bin Laden.

[Guest]

I advocate it because if a member (One who knows the doctrine beforehand) chooses to be a homosexual and refuses to repent, they are in a sinful condition. To remain this way is to inflict further destruction and a future punishment upon their soul. Ending their mortal condition is to do them a favor in that it is ending their state of mortal probation. Obviously in the case of homosexuality they will be unable to act upon their sinful nature, and therefore they cannot continue to break the law of chastity. A law second only to murder.

That's not blood atonement. The sinner ending their life or having their life ended for them is in order to achieve forgiveness for sins that simply cannot be possibly forgiven '.via the normal process'.

Not 'might be hard to repent of' .via normal means.
Simply CANNOT be repented of .via normal means - no matter what else the sinner involved could do. (And all this as you repeat your mantra 'homosexuality is a choice'!! Damn, you can't make this stuff up...)

I'm at my in-laws at the moment, so I don't have my notes on it to give you a proper response. To my understanding it exists solely in a time of a religious government. An unrepentant person who has made covenants to their God and is actively seeking to tear down the church and or tear down doctrines and promote an unchaste lifestyle is taken and executed in order to save their own souls. (As I stated before)

Blood atonement was only ever practiced voluntarily by the sinner themselves. They were convinced by the idiots that led them that it was the only way they could be forgiven of certain sins. Although some of your earlier fellow religious psychopaths did consider the situation where it could be justifiably 'enforced' upon others. i.e. within the soon to come 'theocracy' - which of course never came. Just like Jesus never came back, and is never coming back.

Bigotry is always linked with stupidity. And this is no exception. In this case, Gaz, not only are you staring at the sky - knife in hand - waiting for your human-shaped God to descend from the clouds, you don't even understand the theological principle that you are using as justification for slitting the throats of those 'fags' that you just can't stand.


By the way Gaz, I already know that you are advocating the killing of my uncle - who is openly homosexual.
But my brother is also currently 'living in sin' with his girlfriend. He is 'breaking the law of chastity' regularly. Are you going to be going after him too...?

I understand the doctrine and the thought process behind it.

No you don't. You're just desperate to feel 'OK' about wanting homo's to die. You're a disgrace to yourself and your religion.

I have serious issues with anyone who's going to try to tell me gays are born that way.

Translation: "Don't bore me with facts and figures. Just give me a knife and some pillow-biters"