Gaz advocates death by blood atonement for Chad Hardy?

Post by **_beastie** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:05 pm

I asked a question previously in the thread and didn't get an answer. In this Blood Atonement bit, who does the killing?

Most likely the bishop.

Of course, there were also danites....

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:06 pm

beastie wrote:This is probably one reason that mainstream xtians have a hard time accepting Mormons as fellow Xtians, due to the fact that, in Mormonism, Christ's atonement does have limits.

Bingo.

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:09 pm

beastie wrote:It is part of LDS doctrine that some sins are beyond the power of Jesus' atonement.

D & C 132

26 Verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man marry a wife according to my word, and they are sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, according to mine appointment, and he or she shall commit any sin or transgression of the new and everlasting covenant whatever, and all manner of blasphemies, and if they commit no murder wherein they shed innocent blood, yet they shall come forth in the first resurrection, and enter into their exaltation; but they shall be destroyed in the flesh, and shall be delivered unto the buffetings of Satan unto the day of redemption, saith the Lord God.
27 The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost, which shall not be forgiven in the world nor out of the world, is in that ye commit murder wherein ye shed innocent blood, and assent unto my death, after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, saith the Lord God; and he that abideth not this law can in nowise enter into my glory, but shall be damned, saith the Lord.

These verses demonstrate that two types of infractions are beyond Jesus' atonement: if after having one's "calling and election has been made sure", which essentially guarantees exaltation, the individual commits any sin other than the blasphemy against the HG, then the individual will have to pay personally for that sin.

After having the calling and election made sure, if one commits blasphemy against the HG it is unforgivable, period.

This isn't the same thing as blood atonement, but perhaps it created the seed of the idea.

I'd say that's an accurate assessment, one I wanted to point out but didn't have the energy.

Post by **_asbestosman** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:10 pm

beastie wrote:This is probably one reason that mainstream xtians have a hard time accepting Mormons as fellow Xtians, due to the fact that, in Mormonism, Christ's atonement does have limits.

I thought it had limits according to the Bible itself:
Luke 12:10 And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:11 pm

Okay, now someone explain to me what Nehor was on about regarding Blood Atonement not being possible until the Second Coming. Is that because LDS believe a theocracy will be instituted at that time that allows for Blood Atonement? If so, does that mean that they believe Christ will command it or come in the clouds sword in hand and go about slitting throats himself?

Post by **_Jersey Girl** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:12 pm

ab man,

What do LDS believe constitutes blasphemy against the Holy Ghost? Just curious.

_Ray A · Post by **_Ray A** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:16 pm

Jersey Girl wrote:If so, does that mean that they believe Christ will command it or come in the clouds sword in hand and go about slitting throats himself?

Thanks for my first laugh of the day, Jersey Girl. As I understand the Second Coming belief, I will probably probably be awarded a Goat of Arms.

Post by **_Boaz & Lidia** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:19 pm

Jersey Girl wrote:Okay, now someone explain to me what Nehor was on about regarding Blood Atonement not being possible until the Second Coming. Is that because LDS believe a theocracy will be instituted at that time that allows for Blood Atonement? If so, does that mean that they believe Christ will command it or come in the clouds sword in hand and go about slitting throats himself?

Since LDS believe that LDS Inc is the only divine organization on the earth(even DCP calls LDS the KINGDOM), when Christ supposedly returns in all of his power and being the top Mormon, the world will now be under a Mormon theocracy lead by the top Mormon leader himself, Jesus.

Post by **_Jason Bourne** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:20 pm

Jersey Girl wrote:Okay, now someone explain to me what Nehor was on about regarding Blood Atonement not being possible until the Second Coming. Is that because LDS believe a theocracy will be instituted at that time that allows for Blood Atonement? If so, does that mean that they believe Christ will command it or come in the clouds sword in hand and go about slitting throats himself?

LDS do not believe in the type of blood atonement Gaz is advocating. They don't believe it at all. Yes 19th century leaders taught it and there are some indications that it may have been put in play a few times. BY referenced an incident in the Old Testament where Moses caught two people in bed having sex and he ran them both through with a javelin. BY essentially said that certain sins were beyond the reach of the atonement but that those guilty of such sins could offer up their own blood and still be forgiven.

But all that is on the trash heap of things we wish some of the LDS leaders never said. Still there is an idea of this to a small extent. I believe LDS still believe murder may not be forgivable as well as blasphemy agains the HG. Those are the only two. There is nothing in current LDS dogma that teaches that blood atonement will be practiced in some millennial LDS theocracy.

There are a few like Gaz that if he really holds to this could become a Mormon like Taliban. I hope not but the fact that he seem to believe this is really scary and sad too.

Hey Gaz why do you accept BYs wild teachings about blood atonement but not his teachings about AG. You know that the FLDS and other splinter groups still believe in blood atonement (can you say Lafferty brothers), Adam God and polygamy for exaltation as well.

_GoodK · Post by **_GoodK** » Sun Jul 27, 2008 8:20 pm

Boaz & Lidia wrote:
Jersey Girl wrote:Okay, now someone explain to me what Nehor was on about regarding Blood Atonement not being possible until the Second Coming. Is that because LDS believe a theocracy will be instituted at that time that allows for Blood Atonement? If so, does that mean that they believe Christ will command it or come in the clouds sword in hand and go about slitting throats himself?
Since LDS believe that LDS Inc is the only divine organization on the earth(even DCP call it the KINGDOM), when Christ supposedly returns in all of his power and being the top Mormon, the world will now be under a Mormon theocracy lead by the top Mormon leader himself, Jesus.

I can't wait...