Keeping Religious Zealots Out of Power

[_beastie]

Let's just hope for gaze's kids' sake that none of them end up being gay. Poor things would be turned out on the streets.

[_Gazelam]

Hally,

You have a great way with words and I really wish I could write as well as you do.

Do you know, if they killed the man that did that to me, I would actually feel worse? I would feel as if I caused his death, that his death was on my hands.

And you would be wrong, and would need to come to grips with that.

I don't know if you really understand the nature of guilt, Gaz. I don't know if you can understand what happens inside the mind of someone who is hurt, how they turn that guilt upon themselves, rather than turning it into outward anger. And I'm so tired of trying to articulate these things to you, when it feels like it is impossible for me to put emotion into words, and it feels futile that you'll even listen to me and see what I'm trying to say.

I understand what it is to feel bad when you do something wrong. I've felt guilt for things I have said that have hurt others. As for taking a wrong that was inflicted on me and feeling bad about it no, I am sorry, I cannot relate to that.

There has to come a time when the killing stops. I don't know if you can see this or not, but when you decide to wipe out and annihilate everything and everyone that you don't agree with, you actually become the very kind of horror that you are trying to protect the world against. You actually become the intolerance, and death, and vigilante justice that your Mormon ancestors fled in horror from, only this time, you enact it upon someone else.

Understand this: There will never, ever, be a time when the killing stops. It isn't ever going to happen. There might be times and seasons when the killing stops, for a brief period of time, but it never stops forever. Know why? Because all mankind, on past worlds, on this world, and on future worlds yet to be created, have the free agency to choose evil. Evil never goes away, and the freedom to choose liberty and peace have to be defended. Its always ugly, its always hard, and it always leaves scars, but it has to be done. We will seek to avoid it, we will encourage and promote moral and upright behavior, but not all will accept it. Only when a majority of society agree upon the upholding of moral laws will you ever find peace. But chaos always eventually creeps in, and it will wear the disguise of freedom, when in actuality it is the abuse of freedom.

There is a great truth to be understood in the famous phrase - "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson

I think that is why your scriptures mention mercy so many times. It is mercy to stop, lay down the weapon, and forgive. Mercy is bigger than the vicious surging want to kill, and your God asks it of you, for that reason.

Like Christ I will forgive - the penetant. Do you know who Christ forgives? Those who make and keep covenants with him. The penetant who continually strive to improve themselves and sharpen their viewpoints to see through the delusions the world presents to us.

One of the great delusions of our time is the acceptance and normalizing we see of homosexuality. It is a great tumor in the throught of our society, and its continual acceptance will lead to the suffocation and asphixiation of our culture.

[_Gazelam]

Ray A,

I'm only trying to ascertain your views, Gaz, and you've made them clear. Do you feel that your view that "I myself would never want to see the individual again", is in harmony with what the Book of Mormon teaches?
If so, can you point me to some verses?

Alma 24

30 And thus we can plainly discern, that after a people have been once enlightened by the Spirit of God, and have had great knowledge of things pertaining to righteousness, and then have fallen away into sin and transgression, they become more hardened, and thus their state becomes worse than though they had never known these things.

D&C 42

20 Thou shalt not steal; and he that stealeth and will not repent shall be cast out.
21 Thou shalt not lie; he that lieth and will not repent shall be cast out.
• • •
23 And he that looketh upon a woman to lust after her shall deny the faith, and shall not have the Spirit; and if he repents not he shall be cast out.
24 Thou shalt not commit adultery; and he that committeth adultery, and repenteth not, shall be cast out.
• • •
26 But if he doeth it again, he shall not be forgiven, but shall be cast out.
• • •
28 Thou knowest my laws concerning these things are given in my scriptures; he that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out.
• • •
37 And it shall come to pass, that he that sinneth and repenteth not shall be cast out of the church, and shall not receive again that which he has consecrated unto the poor and the needy of my church, or in other words, unto me—
• • •
74 Behold, verily I say unto you, that whatever persons among you, having put away their companions for the cause of fornication, or in other words, if they shall testify before you in all lowliness of heart that this is the case, ye shall not cast them out from among you;
75 But if ye shall find that any persons have left their companions for the sake of adultery, and they themselves are the offenders, and their companions are living, they shall be cast out from among you.


D&C 41

5 He that receiveth my law and doeth it, the same is my disciple; and he that saith he receiveth it and doeth it not, the same is not my disciple, and shall be cast out from among you;

I have more if you want, if you wanted somethign more specific...

[_Gazelam]

Let's just hope for gaze's kids' sake that none of them end up being gay. Poor things would be turned out on the streets.

They would only be turned out into the streets because it is currently against the law to drown them in a sack in a river.

[_Ray A]

I have more if you want, if you wanted somethign more specific...

Please do, Gaz. I have some "returns" for you later (got to go for now), but post as many as you can find, and even do a separate thread if you feel it necessary. Looking forward to it.

[_beastie]

They would only be turned out into the streets because it is currently against the law to drown them in a sack in a river.

What's disturbing is that you could be serious, as well as that you could think this was a funny thing to say.

You must have applauded when Matthew Shepard was murdered. Or maybe you cried out, "Them's my boys!!"

[_Gazelam]

Asbestos,


D&C 132

41 And as ye have asked concerning adultery, verily, verily, I say unto you, if a man receiveth a wife in the new and everlasting covenant, and if she be with another man, and I have not appointed unto her by the holy anointing, she hath committed adultery and shall be destroyed.
42 If she be not in the new and everlasting covenant, and she be with another man, she has committed adultery.
43 And if her husband be with another woman, and he was under a vow, he hath broken his vow and hath committed adultery.
44 And if she hath not committed adultery, but is innocent and hath not broken her vow, and she knoweth it, and I reveal it unto you, my servant Joseph, then shall you have power, by the power of my Holy Priesthood, to take her and agive her unto him that hath not committed adultery but hath been faithful; for he shall be made ruler over many.


Hard to be exalted without a companion. Adulterors sealings are broken.

[_EAllusion]

They would only be turned out into the streets because it is currently against the law to drown them in a sack in a river.

I can't tell if you are intentionally being over the top or not, but in any case, you are a failure as a human being.

[_GoodK]

They would only be turned out into the streets because it is currently against the law to drown them in a sack in a river.

I can't tell if you are intentionally being over the top or not, but in any case, you are a failure as a human being.

I know at least one Mormon parent who would support this sort of insane cruelty.

(I think DCP and Crockett might know him too)

[_Gazelam]

Your bloodlust disgusts me. Gaz, you're outrageously bigoted and not very bright, which is, in my estimation, a particularly dangerous combination.

Life is like a box of chocolates. Your apparently the dark and bitter.

My littlest sister is a lesbian. And still on the rolls of the Mormon church. She hasn't believed for a long time, but still, she's a member of record.

Hopefully a good home teacher will come by and straighten her out.

She lives with her partner, whom I adore, and who is an incredibly caring and generous woman.

Which ones the manly one? Is your sister the listick or the diesel dyke? You know the kind, hefty in the rear with a mancut and a ring of keys dangling on the hip.

You advocate the murder of my little sister, Gaz.

That depends. Has she had a witness of the Spirit and acts the way she does anyway?

You aren't Christlike. You are evil.

Ever heard of Sodom and Gommorah? Place was full up with homos, Christ burned them all up. Be glad Im advocating a swift death and not a burning.

You disgust me.

You have a sister who owns a large collection of dildos and I disgust you?