Further confusion? Encyclopedia of Mormonism on LDS.ORG

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:07 pm

Mad Viking wrote:It is about as reliable as a magic 8 ball.

Spoken like someone who's never tried it before.

Post by **_Mad Viking** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:18 pm

The Nehor wrote:Spoken like someone who's never tried it before.

How presumptuous of you.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:24 pm

Mad Viking wrote:How presumptuous of you.

Perhaps, but if someone comes up to me and tells me that steak tastes like potatoes I will suspect they've never tasted steak.

Post by **_truth dancer** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:30 pm

The Nehor wrote:Perfectly reliable, but then you have to be living the gospel for it to work.

You seem to be suggesting the reason for so much inaccurate information and false teachings coming from the prophets and leaders of your church is because they are not living the gospel.

OK then.

~dancer~

Post by **_Boaz & Lidia** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:30 pm

Mad Viking wrote:How presumptuous of you.

Ignore the hypocrite. Ask this single Mormon male how old he is and why he has not lived the gospel fully by getting married.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:39 pm

truth dancer wrote:You seem to be suggesting the reason for so much inaccurate information and false teachings coming from the prophets and leaders of your church is because they are not living the gospel.

OK then.

~dancer~

It's certainly possible. However, if I don't know truth then it's my fault. I'm responsible for me. If I have the Holy Ghost then my leaders being off base will affect me not at all.

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 3:41 pm

Boaz & Lidia wrote:Ignore the hypocrite. Ask this single Mormon male how old he is and why he has not lived the gospel fully by getting married.

I don't know but I'm guessing I've given it more thought then you have and if it's due to my sins then I am grateful it is delayed for them. If not, then I trust God enough to believe he knows what he is doing with my life.

Post by **_truth dancer** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:02 pm

The Nehor wrote:It's certainly possible. However, if I don't know truth then it's my fault. I'm responsible for me. If I have the Holy Ghost then my leaders being off base will affect me not at all.

Your comment doesn't address the point.

The point is that you believe the HG is reliable only if one is living the gospel. The leaders and prophets of your church are clearly often mistaken in their revelations and inspiration so, assuming they are at minimum praying and trying to receive direction from God/Christ/HG, they must not be living the gospel.

Unless of course you know other reasons why the HG (and its consequent interaction with humans) is unreliable.

Regardless, the whole LDS "HG" thing clearly is not a good way to discover truth or there would not be so much complete and utter confusion in the church concerning doctrine/teachings/beliefs/truth.

Nehor, did it ever occur to you that maybe you, like prophets and leaders who have gotten significant and important information wrong, are getting incorrect information because you are not living the gospel?

I don't mean this disrespectfully or judgmentally... I'm just saying most believers would assume the prophets and leaders are living the gospel yet they get some really big things really wrong. So, maybe even if you think you are living the gospel, you aren't hence you are getting some really bad/incorrect information?

~dancer~

Post by **_The Nehor** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 4:15 pm

truth dancer wrote:Your comment doesn't address the point.

The point is that you believe the HG is reliable only if one is living the gospel. The leaders and prophets of your church are clearly often mistaken in their revelations and inspiration so, assuming they are at minimum praying and trying to receive direction from God/Christ/HG, they must not be living the gospel.

Unless of course you know other reasons why the HG (and its consequent interaction with humans) is unreliable.

Regardless, the whole LDS "HG" thing clearly is not a good way to discover truth or there would not be so much complete and utter confusion in the church concerning doctrine/teachings/beliefs/truth.

Nehor, did it ever occur to you that maybe you, like prophets and leaders who have gotten significant and important information wrong, are getting incorrect information because you are not living the gospel?

I don't mean this disrespectfully or judgmentally... I'm just saying most believers would assume the prophets and leaders are living the gospel yet they get some really big things really wrong. So, maybe even if you think you are living the gospel, you aren't hence you are getting some really bad/incorrect information?

~dancer~

I don't think they are clearly often mistaken. The mistakes I've seen are not what I would call revelation so I don't place the blame on the Holy Ghost.

It did occur to me and then I realized that I don't get any information when I'm not in touch with God and the information I did get in the past gets fuzzy (for lack of a better word). When I return and it comes back it brings back into memory the times before.

In the past I have tried to force revelation I thought I needed and I was not worthy/ready for. I convinced myself I'd gotten it. I was wrong. One breath of real revelation and the whole house of cards collapsed in seconds. It was an obvious forgery that I could only believe when I was spiritually dead. In that sense, yes, I worry about bringing myself to that state and getting false information. When I'm in the rapturous embrace of the love of God then no, I do not. Instead all I want is more, there doesn't seem to be even the possibility of questioning it while it happens.

I do worry about what I've lost. Several years ago I was probably at the highest spiritual peak I've ever reached. I remember reading some passages of scripture that were previously difficult and getting understanding from them that I'd never before considered and understanding was so easy. I feverishly wrote it down for fear of losing it. Later I lost that fervor and the notes are next to meaningless and I still don't have the understanding I once did and I want it back.

Post by **_Mad Viking** » Wed Jul 30, 2008 5:25 pm

The Nehor wrote:
Mad Viking wrote:How presumptuous of you.

Perhaps, but if someone comes up to me and tells me that steak tastes like potatoes I will suspect they've never tasted steak.

If someone comes up to me and tells me that their “feelings” are equivalent to tasting steak and its comparison to potatoes (an objectively verifiable experience), I will suspect that they have certain predispositions or biases toward specific religious stimuli that invoke certain emotional responses.

However, I have had some really good steaks that deserved worship.

EDIT: Instead of assuming that they had never tasted steak, I would assume that they had a skewed sense of reality.