Sethbag wrote:No blood oaths or vengeance oaths are currently taken in the temple.
Evidently the vengeance oaths ended in 1927, and the other changes took place in 1990.
However, I am thinking the vengeance oaths are still being taught, perhaps in homes?
Anyone know?
I suppose those who are receiving these teachings would not be forthcoming but if thousands of people covenanted to teach these teachings to the third and fourth generation, they must be still taught.
td
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
Sethbag wrote:No blood oaths or vengeance oaths are currently taken in the temple.
But the covenants are still in effect as I understand .. So would the covenant related to Vengence still be in effect?
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it. Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010
Vengeance is mine saith the Lord and I will repay.
The oath was to pray for justice and that the blood of Joseph Smith and the rest of the blood of the Saints would be avenged by God. I was taught to pray for justice when I am oppressed and when someone has wronged me and to pray for justice for all such oppressions.
"Surely he knows that DCP, The Nehor, Lamanite, and other key apologists..." -Scratch clarifying my status in apologetics "I admit it; I'm a petty, petty man." -Some Schmo
The Nehor wrote:Vengeance is mine saith the Lord and I will repay.
The oath was to pray for justice and that the blood of Joseph Smith and the rest of the blood of the Saints would be avenged by God. I was taught to pray for justice when I am oppressed and when someone has wronged me and to pray for justice for all such oppressions.
Very interesting... do you have ancestors who participated in the temple rituals and covenants prior to 1927?
Is this prayer something you learned from your parents or grandparents?
td
"The search for reality is the most dangerous of all undertakings for it destroys the world in which you live." Nisargadatta Maharaj
At request of President Grant we have already adopted some of the changes decided upon, and it will be in order for you to do the same.
In sealing for the dead wether one or both be dead, omit the kissing. Omit from the prayer in the circles all reference to avenging the blood of the Prophets.
Omit from the ordinance and lecture all reference to retribution. This last change can be made with a day's notice to those taking the parts that contain such reference.
This letter is written with the approval of the Presidency. (Letter from George F. Richards to the President of the St. George Temple, dated February 15, 1927)
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil... Adrian Beverland
Here is what Heber Kimball wrote in his journal. Kind of gives us an idea what he thought the oath was all about.
Elder Kimball . . . said the Twelve would have to leave shortly, for a charge of treason would be brought against them far swearing us to avenge the blood of the anointed ones, and some one would reveal it, and we shall have to part some day between sundown and dark—. . . I have covenanted, and never will rest nor my posterity after me until those men who killed Joseph & Hyrum have been wiped out of the earth. (Heber C. Kimball's Journal, December 21, 1845)
Here is what Abraham Cannon thought about it:
About 4:30 p.m. this meeting adjourned and was followed by a meeting of Presidents Woodruff, Cannon and Smith and Bros. Lyman and Grant. . . . In speaking of the recent examination before Judge Anderson Father said that he understood when he had his endowments in Nauvoo that he took an oath against the murderers of the Prophet Joseph as well as other prophets, and if he had ever met any of those who had taken a hand in that massacre he would undoubtedly have attempted to avenge the blood of the martyrs. The Prophet charged Stephen Markham to avenge his blood should he be slain: . . ("Daily Journal of Abraham H. Cannon," Dec. 6, 1889, page 205)
Seems to be a little more than just a prayer, Nevo and Nehor. At least, they seem to think that they are the Lord's arm, if you will, to get the job done. Don't they?
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil... Adrian Beverland
The main way God gets things done on this earth is through his obedient followers. At least that is what I was taught as a believer. So praying to God to avenge the blood of the prophets doesn't absolve YOU from avenging the blood of the prophets. If you prayed to God to help the poor on this earth, don't you think that the first thing that would expected of you would be to actually help the poor yourself?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.
beastie wrote:Well, if the believers on this board are any indication, it appears that LDS believe that blood atonement will be instituted one day under the millennial theocracy.
Only some LDS believers. I think of it as being merely someone's pipe dream. It is too nonchristian to be considered.
beastie wrote:The main way God gets things done on this earth is through his obedient followers. At least that is what I was taught as a believer. So praying to God to avenge the blood of the prophets doesn't absolve YOU from avenging the blood of the prophets. If you prayed to God to help the poor on this earth, don't you think that the first thing that would expected of you would be to actually help the poor yourself?
Exactly! And they left this out of the new MMM book? Shame on them. I really think it is a part of the puzzle, an important part.
I detest my loose style and my libertine sentiments. I thank God, who has removed from my eyes the veil... Adrian Beverland
gramps wrote:Seems to be a little more than just a prayer, Nevo and Nehor. At least, they seem to think that they are the Lord's arm, if you will, to get the job done. Don't they?
Yes, they do seem to. But they don't actually do anything thing about it, do they? Ultimately, they, like everyone else, left vengeance to God.