Unbelievable... seriously!

[_truth dancer]

He believes it. It matches other testimonies. Who am I to argue? Of course this could all be a strawman set up for you guys to knock down, but that doesn't cancel similar and real testimonies.

This is not an aswer to my question.

Do YOU believe God gave the guy his house because he paid a significant sum of money to prop 8?

td

[_truth dancer]

Also BC... I don't mean to be rude here but I think you are the only one who thinks your "no conflict between evolution and your religion" argument makes any sense.


Just sayin...

;-)

[_bcspace]

He believes it. It matches other testimonies. Who am I to argue? Of course this could all be a strawman set up for you guys to knock down, but that doesn't cancel similar and real testimonies.

This is not an aswer to my question.

Do YOU believe God gave the guy his house because he paid a significant sum of money to prop 8?

I think I answered it very specifically.

Also BC... I don't mean to be rude here but I think you are the only one who thinks your "no conflict between evolution and your religion" argument makes any sense.

The real question is does it conflict with either LDS doctrine or science?

Frankly, I think you know it makes perfect sense but can't afford to publically acknowledge it. ;)

[_Gadianton]

Oh I see what you mean. By "square" you mean you take advantage of the fact that Mormon Doctrine is like jello and can be jiggled around until it doesn't conflict with anything.

I thought by "square" you were maintaining some continuity with previous statements you've made in this thread about putting the gospel to the "scientific method", "testing beliefs" scientifically, per ,er, Alma, and producing some kind of interesting research results.

No, I don't think merely saying to everything that could conflict with science, "no that's not doctrine" will get you the Nobel Prize. In fact, you don't even need to tell everyone you're a scientist to do that. As this is standard rote for even the lowest ranking MAD apologists.

[_bcspace]

Oh I see what you mean. By "square" you mean you take advantage of the fact that Mormon Doctrine is like jello and can be jiggled around until it doesn't conflict with anything.

What is and is not doctrine is black and white, spelled out for you by the Church's own statements. Take, for example, the 1909 FP statement on evolution. What is in there that precludes evolution?

I thought by "square" you were maintaining some continuity with previous statements you've made in this thread about putting the gospel to the "scientific method", "testing beliefs" scientifically

You can safely believe that.

No, I don't think merely saying to everything that could conflict with science, "no that's not doctrine" will get you the Nobel Prize. In fact, you don't even need to tell everyone you're a scientist to do that. As this is standard rote for even the lowest ranking MAD apologists.

You will find me perfectly consistent as to LDS doctrine based on the Church's own statements about what is and is not doctrine. I believe there are at least a few LDS detractors on this board who will attest to that.

I present to you the following link as a reference.....

http://mormondiscussions.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7033

[_Ray A]

Are you familiar with LDS doctrine on science?

Which one? The First Presidency, or Henry Eyring's?

[_beastie]

For heaven's sake, BC, bias is required by your so-called scientific method. Both the Bible and the Book of Mormon specify that you have to want to believe first.

Among the success stories, what variety of prior beliefs (or lack thereof) exist and what are their percentages?

No one knows, including you. And unless you are also considering the failure stories, it is entirely irrelevant.

The ten commandments (for example) are vague and subjective?

Absolutely. And there's much more than the ten commandments. But, for example, consider this:

You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.

Some people think this means you shouldn't have any representation of God. Some people think the catholic sculptures constitute idols, but catholics don't. Some people think that caring a lot about money constitutes having an idol, but others don't.

What does it mean to "keep the Sabbath day"? Do all religions agree upon that?

No sampling has been done? No one has ever declared their belief or success in following this experiment? Are you sure?

LOL! Tell me, just how are you going to measure the "knowing"? All you have to go on is self reporting, and who knows what people mean by "know" in this instance. They usually just mean "believe". And why are you not factoring in the individuals - like me - whose results differ from your own? What scientist in the world would disregard contradictory results and pretend they don't matter??

Someone tell me why in the world I'm wasting my time arguing with someone who lives in bizarroland in the first place. It feels quite insane.

[_Scottie]

Can I ask the bigger question here...

WTF does the church need MORE donations for?? They have billions at their disposal!! This website would be pocket change for them!!

[_Ray A]

This is how I also feel about your statements, BC:

I always feel a little bit unhappy when someone tells me that they’ll give me a beautiful picture that reconciles everything. Baloney. I mean, I can’t reconcile chemistry, and they’re going to take the whole world and reconcile it and religion and science and everything in it? I can’t do that. I like contradictions. - Henry Eyring.

Over to you now for more semantic gymnastics.

[_truth dancer]

Hi Beastie,

Someone tell me why in the world I'm wasting my time arguing with someone who lives in bizarroland in the first place. It feels quite insane.

I was thinking the same thing about myself.

I was beginning to be sucked into some alternative universe... You know the one where nothing means anything, anything can mean nothing or everything, and words don't mean what you think they mean. In this universe you can say anything you want and have it mean whatever you want it to mean.

So.. I can say that the moon is in the sky and it really means, I took ballet lessons when I was three.

In this universe regardless of what leaders say their statements can mean whatever you want them to mean. There are never any contradictions because words can mean whatever you want them to mean.

It is crazy making!

LOL!