Leaving The Church - Loss of God Belief?

[_Moniker]

I was looking over the LDS section of CARM and seeing the missionary efforts of mainstream Christians to convert LDS and it makes me uneasy to view their attempts... Something just makes me queasy when I view it. Faith battles sort of skeeve me out!

Anyway, it would appear, to me, that losing faith in the LDS Church, where truth and the one Church is indoctrinated in those that grew up in it. would seem to ensure that those that left the Church would most likely question all their indoctrination and be less inclined to move onto other Christian sects. Yet, I also see some here that stay Christians or don't lose their belief in God.

Wondering where you stand? If you lost your belief in God was it because you threw out all the indoctrination? Was it that you viewed the other religious faiths as not true to begin with -- were you in some way prejudiced against other faiths (I think this is most likely from just witnessing some of the pretty gross misconceptions announced on the board by former LDS about other mainstream Christian sects)? Is it that the mammal God seemed absurd in some way and you were never indoctrinated with the nebulous God of other Christian faiths (for me, that sort of God is more reasonable than a mammal God)? Or what precisely do you think led you to lose belief in God?

[_Scottie]

I was looking over the LDS section of CARM and seeing the missionary efforts of mainstream Christians to convert LDS and it makes me uneasy to view their attempts... Something just makes me queasy when I view it. Faith battles sort of skeeve me out!

Anyway, it would appear, to me, that losing faith in the LDS Church, where truth and the one Church is indoctrinated in those that grew up in it. would seem to ensure that those that left the Church would most likely question all their indoctrination and be less inclined to move onto other Christian sects. Yet, I also see some here that stay Christians or don't lose their belief in God.

Wondering where you stand? If you lost your belief in God was it because you threw out all the indoctrination? Was it that you viewed the other religious faiths as not true to begin with -- were you in some way prejudiced against other faiths (I think this is most likely from just witnessing some of the pretty gross misconceptions announced on the board by former LDS about other mainstream Christian sects)? Is it that the mammal God seemed absurd in some way and you were never indoctrinated with the nebulous God of other Christian faiths (for me, that sort of God is more reasonable than a mammal God)? Or what precisely do you think led you to lose belief in God?

For me, God was always the bigger question. It seemed to me that man has always worshipped some kind of God or Gods. Most of those Gods seem ridiculous to us now, but they were just as real to those men and women as Elohim was to me.

I believed in Mormonism, which forced me to believe in the Mormon God.

[_Thama]

I never had a reason to believe in any other Christian sect. I've lived my life in an area where Mormons are quite rare, have discussed beliefs with those of other Christian faiths and attended their services. There were some I had a great deal of respect for, but most others appeared even more dogmatic and less rational than Mormonism... some even openly hostile toward education and rationality.

You could say now that I'm a theistic-leaning agnostic... I'd really like to believe in a God, or even in Christ, but I just don't see the evidence for it. For me, leaving the Church was a matter of being intellectually honest with myself, and admitting to myself that I have no rational basis to hold one set of beliefs tended to make me reject the more mainstream, comfortable sets of beliefs which I had just as little rational cause to hold.

I wouldn't even classify it as the casting off of indoctrination... I never felt indoctrinated, and I still don't think that most of my beliefs were the result of a brainwashing process. Wishful thinking had far more to do with it: the promises and claims of Mormonism are spectacular in many ways.

[_John Larsen]

I don't see that any religion has better claims than the Mormons. If you apply critical analysis to Mormonism to reject it, the same application would reject any religion.

There is wide scale hypocrisy among many Mormon critics who apply standards to Mormonism they are not willing to subject to their own faith.

It seems to me that if you are intellectually honest, you would have a hard to accepting the metaphysical claims of any religion.

[_Scottie]

I don't see that any religion has better claims than the Mormons. If you apply critical analysis to Mormonism to reject it, the same application would reject any religion.

There is wide scale hypocrisy among many Mormon critics who apply standards to Mormonism they are not willing to subject to their own faith.

It seems to me that if you are intellectually honest, you would have a hard to accepting the metaphysical claims of any religion.

I'm not sure you can use "any religion". There are some eastern religions that have nothing to do with the supernatural. They are focused on bettering yourself from within, rather than the fear of eternal punishment.

[_Moniker]

I wouldn't even classify it as the casting off of indoctrination... I never felt indoctrinated, and I still don't think that most of my beliefs were the result of a brainwashing process. Wishful thinking had far more to do with it: the promises and claims of Mormonism are spectacular in many ways.

Hi, Thama, when I use the term indoctrination I don't mean it in a derogatory fashion. We're all indoctrinated with beliefs. I agree with you that there are some sects that read the Bible literally and are really fundamentalist.. I think one of the great things the LDS Church actually has going for it is their emphasis on education. I appreciate it, at least.

[_Moniker]

I don't see that any religion has better claims than the Mormons. If you apply critical analysis to Mormonism to reject it, the same application would reject any religion.

There is wide scale hypocrisy among many Mormon critics who apply standards to Mormonism they are not willing to subject to their own faith.

It seems to me that if you are intellectually honest, you would have a hard to accepting the metaphysical claims of any religion.

Well, many mainstream Christians Church hop -- even move between Catholicism and Protestant faiths. Yet, with the LDS Church this appears to be very different. At least from what I've witnessed on the boards. Seems the majority of those that leave the LDS Church actually do lose complete faith in God. This is not so with many mainstream Christians that leave the Church of their youth.

[_Thama]

I don't see that any religion has better claims than the Mormons. If you apply critical analysis to Mormonism to reject it, the same application would reject any religion.

There is wide scale hypocrisy among many Mormon critics who apply standards to Mormonism they are not willing to subject to their own faith.

It seems to me that if you are intellectually honest, you would have a hard to accepting the metaphysical claims of any religion.

Well, many mainstream Christians Church hop -- even move between Catholicism and Protestant faiths. Yet, with the LDS Church this appears to be very different. At least from what I've witnessed on the boards. Seems the majority of those that leave the LDS Church actually do lose complete faith in God. This is not so with many mainstream Christians that leave the Church of their youth.

There was an excellent essay posted here not long ago that I think addresses the reason for this. Most people in Christian religions are conditioned to think in terms of "good" and "not good" when judging beliefs, doctrines, and churches, while truth is something which isn't valued as highly. Mormons are conditioned to think in terms of "true" and "not true", and so once what they thought was "true" turns out to be not so, none of the alternate sets of belief which had been labeled "not true" (at least partially) have any real allure. While someone who thinks in terms of "good" and "not good" might simply move to another faith which simply has a different degree of "good", it's much harder to think of this as a valid action when dealing in terms of "true".

[_antishock8]

Well, I think when one exits Mormonism it's a matter of making another conscientious decision to suspend your critical thinking skills reference Christianity, or religion in general, if you're going to keep the faith. All religions make fantastic claims. All religions require faith. All religions fail empirical testing. All of them.

So. You're back to square one regarding Mormonsim and god-belief. in my opinion, it's no different to maintain a belief in Mormonism if you're going to maintain a belief in god. The stories are incredible. Witnesses are unreliable.

Oh, and faith is simply a hope in things unseen. Apologists already lose the argument when they attempt to base their arguments in rationality. They. Don't. Have. Faith. And that's the gospel truth.. :)

[_MsJack]

I was looking over the LDS section of CARM and seeing the missionary efforts of mainstream Christians to convert LDS and it makes me uneasy to view their attempts... Something just makes me queasy when I view it. Faith battles sort of skeeve me out!

Your spider sense is tingling because Matt Slick is a huge prick and a hypocrite. I was a moderator for their forums for a short time, a long, long time ago. Kind of hard to change people's hearts and instill warm, mushy feelings towards evangelicals when your own leader is such an obvious jerk.

At the FAIR Conference in 2003, Richard Abanes was talking with a couple of the folks from FAIR, and I remember he was having a discussion about why he thought it was better for a person to be atheist/agnostic than LDS. I don't know if his views have changed since then, but If I recall correctly, he was saying that if someone leaves the church and becomes agnostic/atheist, it's still better than them being in the church. Whether Richard is/was of that view, that's how some evangelicals feel about it.

I don't. I'm a bit unusual among evangelicals in that I believe in a very small degree of individual soteriological inclusivism. I think it's possible for Latter-day Saints to have a saving relationship with Christ even if they have a few facts wrong about Him, C.S. Lewis Calormene-warrior style. So it's not my first concern to see Latter-day Saints leave the church. I'd rather see them know Jesus within the church, and plenty of them do that just fine on their own. I also don't think that tearing down the LDS church is the answer. Mormons already teach so many things that are true and are part of the gospel, I'd rather see the church reform than fall apart.

Anyways, I don't wanna say "gee that's sad" because I don't want you guys to think I pity you or don't respect your decision to not believe in God. I've known some damn fine atheists/agnostics (most of them were better people than Matt Slick for sure). But the tendency of ex-Mormons to make "none of the above" their new religion is just one more reason why I think militant evangelical critics do more harm than good.