Charles Manson and the Mormons

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_Droopy
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Post by _Droopy »

Manson's Interpretation of the Book of Revelation**

1. Manson saw himself as "the fifth angel" (Verse 1) who would be given "the key to the pit of the abyss."

2. Verse 11 refers the fifth angel as "king," whose "name in Hebrew is Abaddon." The Catholic Douay Version contains also a Latin name, inadvertently omitted from other versions: "Exterminans."

3. Verse 3 says that "out of the smoke came forth locusts upon the earth; and power was given them." Manson believed that the "locusts" were in fact "beetles"--the English musical group, "The Beatles."

4. Manson found confirmation for the Beatles being the "locusts" of Revelation in verses 7 through 9. Verse 7 refers to the locusts having "faces as were men's faces," but verse 8 says "they had hair as the hair of women"--which Manson took to be a reference to the Beatles' long hair. Also, verse 9 refers to the locusts as having "breastplates of iron." In Manson's interpretation the Beatles' breastplates were their electric guitars. The "horses" that they rode (verse 7) were dune buggies. Finally, Manson saw the "fire and smoke and brimstone" that came out of their mouths (verse 17) as being the powerful lyrics to their songs--especially those in the White Album. Manson also at times saw the Beatles "the four angels" of verse 15.

5. The 200,000,000 persons comprising "the armies of the horsemen" (verse 16) who would spread destruction around the earth were, in Manson's interpretation, motorcyclists.

6. Manson interpreted verse 4--"And it was said unto them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither any green thing"--as meaning that it was wrong to kill any living thing--except, perversely, people. Manson would frequently upbraid family members for killing rattlesnakes or other creatures.

7. Manson believed he would lead his Family to the desert, where they would wait out the coming holocaust and multiply until they numbered 144,000--a number he got from Revelation, Chapter 7 which refers to twelve tribes of Israel, each numbering 12,000.

8. Manson believed that the entrance to "the pit of the abyss" (verse 1) was a forgotten cave somewhere in Death Valley. Through this cave one could gain entrace to a wonderful land "of milk and honey" lighted by glowing walls and filled with warm spring water.

9. Perhaps most critically, was Manson's interpretation of verse 15: "And the four angels were loosed, that had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, that they should kill the third part of men." Manson saw verse 15 as a prophecy of the imminent Helter Skelter in which a revolt by blacks would result in a killing of one-third of the population. Manson may have believed that he was setting this revolt in motion in August of 1969 when he loosed from Spahn ranch his Family members with instructions to kill.

http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/project ... ation.html


Yes, so many parallels to Joseph Smith.

No wonder the price of tin foil is soaring, the exmos are building their year's supply.
_bcspace
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Post by _bcspace »

Here we have two people who are so charismatic as to get women to align themselves sexually to them (with some talking, urging and persuading).

Both groups have the heads of their organizations / cults awarding women (and therefore sexual favors) to their followers.

Both groups have women who think so highly of their leaders, and so little of themselves, that they willingly ‘obey’ their leaders and marry / prostitute / give sexual favors to whomever the leaders tell them.


CFR
Machina Sublime
Satan's Plan Deconstructed.
Your Best Resource On Joseph Smith's Polygamy.
Conservatism is the Gospel of Christ and the Plan of Salvation in Action.
The Degeneracy Of Progressivism.
_Droopy
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Post by _Droopy »

CFR ditto...
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
_Reformed Egyptian
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Post by _Reformed Egyptian »

Interesting thoughts...and reactions to my stating my reaction to what I had just read about Charlie Manson and the parallels that my mind made at the time...ie. within 2 minutes of my reading it I posted this...perhaps I ought to have paused and reflected more.

I do agree upon further reflection, there is not a "profound" connection...however, there is still, to my thinking, a willingness for people to believe the unbelievable, give themselves wholly (mind and body, including $$$, labor, sexually, etc.) and to even commit murder for their leaders. Maybe I am completely out to lunch, but for today, I see it and believe it (that some similarities exist). Maybe though, like the ever changing doctrines of LDS-dom, I'll change my views on this one day? :)

My my wife herself has recently said our 14 year old girl is fair game to any apostle who wants her cuz God Himself is leading the LDS Church...so, yes, this line of cult-like stop-think non-think thinking has me personally vested in it's elimination (at least, from my quasi-TBM wife's mind and from my children's minds).

This Manson / Smith thinking (even if it be a 'stretch') now has me on the path to learning more. I've not claimed to have arrived at the end of my learning journey and I thank you all (even the highly critical peeps) for your thoughts.

RE: LYING. I met with my SP recently who confirmed to me that our prophets do indeed lie to us and to the world via the media about our beliefs, in order to 'protect the innocent'. Our Bishop is 100% ok with the church lying and manipulating truth to put their most 'faith promoting version of themselves' out there. So is Pres. Oaks and Packer who's statements you can readily find. So when I put my most faith promoting version of myself forward in a Temple interview in order to not lose my children or my family and keep the peace (my my wife was very open about divorcing me in my period of 'open questioning')...yes, I'm "lying". So do our prophets and apostles today, (even Jesus apparently recommends agreeing with your enemy quickly while you're 'face to face' with them). And so is God Himself lying IF he's really leading and inspiring his prophets (who will NEVER lead us astray) who yet also lie to us all today.

CFR = ???

Thanks peeps.
RE
Reformed Egyptian

"Why do I have to be lied to (and lie to myself) in order to maintain belief in the TRUE Mormon / LDS Church?"

http://reformedegyptian.wordpress.com/
_Pa Pa
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Re: Charles Manson and the Mormons

Post by _Pa Pa »

Reformed Egyptian wrote:I was reading about Charles Manson the other day and found the similarities between himself, Joseph Smith and their followers to be quite shockingly similar.
bull crap.
To use your word "Bull Crap" (wait that's two words) You go to far, sir. You reveal your discust for all Mormons when you suggest such a thing. Charles Manson is evil beyond discription. Why is that everyone believes anything negitive about Joseph Smith and reject any good report as bunk?
_Reformed Egyptian
_Emeritus
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Re: Charles Manson and the Mormons

Post by _Reformed Egyptian »

Pa Pa wrote:
Reformed Egyptian wrote:I was reading about Charles Manson the other day and found the similarities between himself, Joseph Smith and their followers to be quite shockingly similar.
bull crap.
To use your word "Bull Crap" (wait that's two words) You go to far, sir. You reveal your discust for all Mormons when you suggest such a thing. Charles Manson is evil beyond discription. Why is that everyone believes anything negitive about Joseph Smith and reject any good report as bunk?


Not so actually, I believe Joseph Smith believed much of what he claimed to be true.

Just as my dear wife believes that God Himself recently told her (spiritually) that:
#1 yes she's being lied to by our manuals, prophets and 'faith promoting material' and that all the Anti-stuff is actually true LDS history and
#2 that yes Joseph Smith was a sexual predator (this is GOD talking to her, not my words)
#3 for her to still stand behind Joseph and this Church...for this is where she needs to be at this time, for her development and good.

I believe my wife is as near as perfect as they come.
I believe and know Joseph Smith did much good.
I also believe, my personal belief, that both are somewhat delusional and not thinking rationally.
Reformed Egyptian

"Why do I have to be lied to (and lie to myself) in order to maintain belief in the TRUE Mormon / LDS Church?"

http://reformedegyptian.wordpress.com/
_haleray
_Emeritus
Posts: 56
Joined: Mon Apr 28, 2008 2:47 am

Re:

Post by _haleray »

Reformed Egyptian wrote:Interesting thoughts...and reactions to my stating my reaction to what I had just read about Charlie Manson and the parallels that my mind made at the time...ie. within 2 minutes of my reading it I posted this...perhaps I ought to have paused and reflected more.

I do agree upon further reflection, there is not a "profound" connection...however, there is still, to my thinking, a willingness for people to believe the unbelievable, give themselves wholly (mind and body, including $$$, labor, sexually, etc.) and to even commit murder for their leaders. Maybe I am completely out to lunch, but for today, I see it and believe it (that some similarities exist). Maybe though, like the ever changing doctrines of LDS-dom, I'll change my views on this one day? :)

My my wife herself has recently said our 14 year old girl is fair game to any apostle who wants her cuz God Himself is leading the LDS Church...so, yes, this line of cult-like stop-think non-think thinking has me personally vested in it's elimination (at least, from my quasi-TBM wife's mind and from my children's minds).

This Manson / Smith thinking (even if it be a 'stretch') now has me on the path to learning more. I've not claimed to have arrived at the end of my learning journey and I thank you all (even the highly critical peeps) for your thoughts.

RE: LYING. I met with my SP recently who confirmed to me that our prophets do indeed lie to us and to the world via the media about our beliefs, in order to 'protect the innocent'. Our Bishop is 100% ok with the church lying and manipulating truth to put their most 'faith promoting version of themselves' out there. So is Pres. Oaks and Packer who's statements you can readily find. So when I put my most faith promoting version of myself forward in a Temple interview in order to not lose my children or my family and keep the peace (my my wife was very open about divorcing me in my period of 'open questioning')...yes, I'm "lying". So do our prophets and apostles today, (even Jesus apparently recommends agreeing with your enemy quickly while you're 'face to face' with them). And so is God Himself lying IF he's really leading and inspiring his prophets (who will NEVER lead us astray) who yet also lie to us all today.

CFR = ???

Thanks peeps.
RE

In Ann Rule’s book ‘the stranger beside me’ it states that the serial killer, Ted Bundy, became a Mormon, while he was in Salt Lake, so he could fit in the community.
_Droopy
_Emeritus
Posts: 9826
Joined: Mon May 12, 2008 4:06 pm

Re: Charles Manson and the Mormons

Post by _Droopy »

Why was this excursion into tin foil hattery resurrected? You see, in Shadyland, even the most witless, vapid arguments maintain traction well beyond the point that serous people would have long abandoned them for greener intellectual pastures.

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...
Nothing is going to startle us more when we pass through the veil to the other side than to realize how well we know our Father [in Heaven] and how familiar his face is to us

- President Ezra Taft Benson


I am so old that I can remember when most of the people promoting race hate were white.

- Thomas Sowell
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