MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

The catch-all forum for general topics and debates. Minimal moderation. Rated PG to PG-13.
Post Reply
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _beastie »

Here are some other obvious things: Parallel lines seem to converge in the distance, but they really don't converge. Spoons seem to be bent in water, but they're really not. The earth is round. Without air we die.

These are so obvious that I usually don't think it worth my while to assert them. Let alone to discuss them for two weeks and fourteen pages.


Part of the problem in conversations like this is history - I've seen apologists deny the obvious many times. Look at your codefender, LoaP, right on this thread - doing his best to deny my tobacco examples shows clear - and potentially troubling - conflict of interest.

I also think it's obvious that church leaders who have expressly stated that historians who share true information that could damage the faith of believers are at risk of losing their eternal salvation would not approve of allowing information proving BY ordered the attack be included in the text. But you have rigorously denied that.

I repeat: It's weird to be so interested in the book without lifting a finger to pick it up.


It's not weird at all. If I had not just spent my book allowance the week before, I would have ordered the book the same day it came out. As it is, since I'm doing my best to discipline my book spending, I have to weigh whether or not to buy it at all.

I think it's weird not to be interested in a book one is contemplating purchasing.

I've also never denied it.

I've said that the only valid way of assessing the book is by carefully reading the book.

The rest, given that the book exists and is easily accessible, is essentially obfuscation.


I have deliberately and repeated asserted that I am *not* making commentary of the accuracy of the text.

Now you're back to insinuating that noting the conflict on interest is "obfuscation". See the problem?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

beastie wrote:I think it's weird not to be interested in a book one is contemplating purchasing.

A position that I've advocated?

[What is the point of attempting to converse with her? he asks himself.]

beastie wrote:Now you're back to insinuating that noting the conflict on interest is "obfuscation". See the problem?

I've never insinuated that merely "noting the conflict [of] interest is 'obfuscation.'"

[Really. What is the point?]

It's almost reached fifteen pages!

"I-think-I-can! I-think-I-can! I-think-I-can! I-think-I-can! I-think-I-can! I-think-I-can! I think I can - I think I can - I think I can I think I can--"
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _beastie »

I think I see the problem in our conversations. I actually take the context of what's already been said into consideration, and apparently DCP doesn't.

I have repeatedly said on this thread I'm debating purchasing the book. So when you say that:

I repeat: It's weird to be so interested in the book without lifting a finger to pick it up.


in the middle of a conversation with me, then I assume that you're talking about me. I know, it's just a bad habit I have of feeling "singled out" when I've been, you know, singled out.

DCP says:
The rest, given that the book exists and is easily accessible, is essentially obfuscation.


And then:
I've never insinuated that merely "noting the conflict [of] interest is 'obfuscation.'"


Then, what, pray tell, is the "rest" to which you refer as obfuscation?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
_Daniel Peterson
_Emeritus
Posts: 7173
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2007 6:56 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _Daniel Peterson »

How long can you possibly keep this going?

[Are we at fifteen yet?]
_Trevor
_Emeritus
Posts: 7213
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2007 6:28 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _Trevor »

Daniel Peterson wrote:Will anybody here actually read the book?


If it ever arrives! Amazon seems to be taking its sweet time. They did have a good price, however.
“I was hooked from the start,” Snoop Dogg said. “We talked about the purpose of life, played Mousetrap, and ate brownies. The kids thought it was off the hook, for real.”
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Yong Xi wrote:I don't mean to be disrespectful, but this is either naïve or disingenuous. A smoking gun aimed at BY would pose major problems for the church. How do you get around that one?


It's pretty simple. You say "it seems Brigham Young made a bad decision based on the circumstances, current information he had, impending war, etc." and what have you, and say that as a prophet he was not led in all things. People make mistakes. Prophets do too. I'm not being naïve and I'm not being disingenuous. How long did it take the Church to release the fraudulent Joseph Smith III blessing in the 80s?
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

TAK wrote:Thank you for confirming that you would say anything in the effort to defend Mormonism..



In the effort for reasonable and charitable dialog, I ask you to refrain from putting words in my mouth or making me out to be dishonest, disingenuous, etc. especially based on my belief that the Church would release such information. Thanks.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
_Emeritus
Posts: 2799
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

beastie wrote:Part of the problem in conversations like this is history - I've seen apologists deny the obvious many times. Look at your codefender, LoaP, right on this thread - doing his best to deny my tobacco examples shows clear - and potentially troubling - conflict of interest.


I already agreed with you above. You said "Any person with half a brain in his/her head would immediately recognize the conflict of interest and apply analytical skepticism to the study." I replied with "Good point." In other words, I agreed that one could recognize a potential conflict of interest there. "Doing my best to deny it" failed. I pointed out some peripheral issues, interestingly to your point. Isn't is slightly annoying when people get sidetracked on stuff? Kind of like pontificating for days on a book one intends never to read? ;)
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_TAK
_Emeritus
Posts: 1555
Joined: Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:47 pm

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _TAK »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:
TAK wrote:Thank you for confirming that you would say anything in the effort to defend Mormonism..



In the effort for reasonable and charitable dialog, I ask you to refrain from putting words in my mouth or making me out to be dishonest, disingenuous, etc. especially based on my belief that the Church would release such information. Thanks.


I do not see how you can possibly juxtapose your response in light of the comments posted above by LDS Leaders that truth is secondary to the LDS Mission. Additionally.. Since they admit to be willing to be less than forthcoming why should I expect any thing different from you?
God has the right to create and to destroy, to make like and to kill. He can delegate this authority if he wishes to. I know that can be scary. Deal with it.
Nehor.. Nov 08, 2010


_________________
_beastie
_Emeritus
Posts: 14216
Joined: Thu Nov 02, 2006 2:26 am

Re: MILLIONS spent by LDS Inc on new MMM book

Post by _beastie »

DCP
The rest, given that the book exists and is easily accessible, is essentially obfuscation.


DCP
I've never insinuated that merely "noting the conflict [of] interest is 'obfuscation.'"


DCP
How long can you possibly keep this going?


I don’t know. How long can you distract and divert before you break down and answer the simple question:


Then, what, pray tell, is the "rest" to which you refer as obfuscation?
We hate to seem like we don’t trust every nut with a story, but there’s evidence we can point to, and dance while shouting taunting phrases.

Penn & Teller

http://www.mormonmesoamerica.com
Post Reply