Kenneth Miller's New Book - Only a Theory...

[_beastie]

Anyway, divine command theory is to philosophy of ethics what creationism is to biology.

Oooo, SNAP!

[_Tarski]

My observation is that the ideas and beliefs about God follow the collective human cultural "evolution".

In other words, if society is OK with burning children as a sacrifice, then God is OK with it. But when the consciousness of human society questions and eventually decides it may not be a good idea, then God also doesn't go for it.

If men want to slaughter whole communities to wipe out a particular belief system, God too wants to get rid of the infidels. But if humans decide this isn't appropriate, God agrees with them.

If society thinks it is OK for men to own women and girls, then God is fine with it as well. When human awareness evolves to the point that they sense this is not a good way to exist, then God will agree with them.

God doesn't seem to be the one commanding or teaching anything. God is more the follower of human cultural consciousness.

When humans evolve to become more aware and concerned about others, then then God will follow suit.

Of course there are always those enlightened souls who lead the way and begin to bring forth deeper awareness... as soon as people agree with these insightful people, then God will as well. ;-)

When humans realize that the elitism and chosen-ness of many religions is divisive and harmful, then God will let go of this nonsense too. Give us another few millennia... (smile)



(Just playing prophetess for a sec).

;-)

td

QTF

[_SatanWasSetUp]

I agree with others that if believing in God is the only thing keeping you from raping, murdering, plundering, robbing, and becoming a lawyer then, by all means, keep believing in God. Personally, I have no burning desire to do any of those things, whether there is a God or not. I do not want to live in that type of society, and I believe most other people don't either. I would prefer holding hands and singing kumbya with all the other pinko commie atheists.

[_Scottie]

A mob will commit atrocities that every individual in that mob would recoil in horror from every committing alone. I'm not so sure the same wouldn't hold true for an atheist society.

Mobs commit atrocities due to the fact that individual thinking has ceased. How would this apply to an atheist society? Mobs aren't considering God's Big Stick or anything else.

I'm not sure that it would. But I do think it's worth considering when asking how your values would change.

Are there any examples of an atheist society?

Personally, I don't think it is possible. People are too invested in an afterlife. They need to have hope of seeing a loved one that has died. I think the majority of religions come from the concept of some kind of afterlife.

If someone were to try an experiment where they isolated themselves on a remote island and tried to create a purely atheist society, I suspect some concept of an afterlife would arise. Then a governing body over this afterlife would follow, which would evolve into a God or gods to explain unexplained events.

[_Moniker]

He's saying that Dawkins uses evolutionary theory to advocate for atheism. Since atheism entails amorality, if Dawkins is successful and atheism becomes more prevalent, it will result in horrors. After all, without God all things are permitted. He openly compares evolution (at least insofar as it is a tool of atheist advocacy) to the religious to what a Nazi symbol means to the Jews.

I'm not sure if this is more offensive because of how it maligns atheists or because of how dumb it is.

Well, that's sort of how I read it... I wasn't certain if this was the norm in the anti-evolution crowd. I guess I just never thought out their arguments. I knew that there was fear that evolution attacked God belief, yet, I guess it just didn't occur to me that this was dangerous and chaos would ensue. I also just don't understand why this is repeated so often when lots of theists actually do accept evolution along side their religious beliefs.

[_Moniker]

Dude, I think science teacher was doing a bit of his own preaching, no doubt. Although, like beastie mentioned, it's a bit scary that a highschool biology teacher thinks that evolution is dangerous.

Beastie, you evil atheist! How dare you warp that young girl's mind with science! I, too, hope she'll get some really great instructors that will acknowledge her curiosity and help her explore it. I think that's actually one of the great things about the net now. If they had a question I could direct them to google and they can explore themselves with proper supervision, of course! What a shame that this lil girl had a spark of interest and it was shot down by her parents.

About the raping and pillaging thing. It's so odd, for me, to really recognize that believers (some) actually do think they would be terrible without belief. I know on CARM a lot lately I've had to repeatedly explain reciprocal altruism, external influences that shape morality such as society, internal, etc... and STILL they just can't wrap their minds about the notion that morality is not possible outside of their religious beliefs. I feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall, at times. It's frustrating, yet, more than that, it's sort of scary to recognize that people think that other people are BAD and without these controls we would all be wild out of control animals! I don't understand that mindset -- maybe it's 'cause I never had it. It seems so odd, to me.

[_EAllusion]

Evolution leading to immorality, and specifically the horrors of the Nazis, has been a pillar in the creationist/anti-evolution movement for a long time. Besides evolution - atheism - moral chaos the other big arguments are evolution - we are merely animals - it is Ok to behave like animals and evolution - survival of the fittest - involuntary eugenics and/or might equal right. This person isn't arguing that so much as he's arguing that the notion that evolution supports atheism is dangerous because atheism leads to wanton immorality.

[_Moniker]

TD, what a wonderful post! It seems so apparent, to me, that humanity is what they attribute to God (whichever God!). That humanity is the nobility, the beauty, the love, the destruction, etc... that they project onto God. I find it such a shame that some believers think they are "bad" and are seeking to reach the perfection of God when actually humanity is "God".

[_Moniker]

Evolution leading to immorality, and specifically the horrors of the Nazis, has been a pillar in the creationist/anti-evolution movement for a long time. Besides evolution - atheism - moral chaos the other big arguments are evolution - we are merely animals - it is Ok to behave like animals and evolution - survival of the fittest - involuntary eugenics and/or might equal right. This person isn't arguing that so much as he's arguing that the notion that evolution supports atheism is dangerous because atheism leads to wanton immorality.

I'm new to their arguments! It just seems so strange! I just lately have been reading anti-atheist literature and anti-evolution literature and it just smacks of misconceptions and fear mongering.

How precisely does one combat the immorality arguments? I've been trying to counter these arguments lately on CARM and I seriously just seem to make no headway. The misconceptions of the theory seem to be a big buggaboo. I post links and spell it out slowly and still I get a one liner reply about survival of the fittest and how pity is not something that evolved and charity would not be possible without God creating us. This is after tedious attempts to explain how cooperation is linked to survival. It's sort of exhausting. Of course I'm an atheist and don't understand -- I can only understand after I know God.

:(

[_John Larsen]

Evolution leading to immorality, and specifically the horrors of the Nazis, has been a pillar in the creationist/anti-evolution movement for a long time. Besides evolution - atheism - moral chaos the other big arguments are evolution - we are merely animals - it is Ok to behave like animals and evolution - survival of the fittest - involuntary eugenics and/or might equal right. This person isn't arguing that so much as he's arguing that the notion that evolution supports atheism is dangerous because atheism leads to wanton immorality.

Evolution might teach that we are all animals, but religion teaches that just the other guys are animals. Which is worse?