Bushman: Internet having an impact

[_Scottie]

This was the last I recall seeing anything about it.

Stake Youth Fireside Going Down In Flames?, Originally meant to address "tough" Mormon issues

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... =firesides

Nope, see here.

[_Moniker]

This was the last I recall seeing anything about it.

Stake Youth Fireside Going Down In Flames?, Originally meant to address "tough" Mormon issues

http://www.mormonapologetics.org/index. ... =firesides

Nope, see here.

I was just reading that! Haha! You're on top of things!

[_The Dude]

Bushman: We need to stop pushing the "chapel Mormon" approach of holding to tradition and dismissing criticisms as anti-mormon lies. These newly illuminated members must be introduced to the "internet Mormon" approach: accept the criticism as basically factual, and show how our traditional view can be modified to accomodate such troubling news.

Some of the apologists on MAD already use this approach. They are still understandably combatative, however, because critics like to point out how the accomodating approach differs from tradition, how it is ad hoc and desperate, etc.

[_truth dancer]

What is weird to me is that a church that claims to be run by Jesus Christ himself and run by prophets and apostles, is resorting to others to find ways to deal with these problematic issues.

You have your FAIR/FARMS folks revising what Joseph Smith and early leaders taught and preached, hoping to expand ones paradigm. (smile)

Then you have scholars like Bushman addressing some serious issues, doing his best to help innoculate and help members.

And of course the prestigious PR firm in NY providing research and coming up with ideas to help.

But where are the leaders of the church? Where is the prophet? The apostles?

Where is God?

td

[_John Larsen]

What is weird to me is that a church that claims to be run by Jesus Christ himself and run by prophets and apostles, is resorting to others to find ways to deal with these problematic issues.

You have your FAIR/FARMS folks revising what Joseph Smith and early leaders taught and preached, hoping to expand ones paradigm. (smile)

Then you have scholars like Bushman addressing some serious issues, doing his best to help innoculate and help members.

And of course the prestigious PR firm in NY providing research and coming up with ideas to help.

But where are the leaders of the church? Where is the prophet? The apostles?

Where is God?

td

One thing is absolutely clear, the Church is currently without strong leadership. They are looking for direction anywhere they can get it: Marketing, PR firms, apologists, and teenage girls with blogs. The current leadership is in way over their head and they don't know how to move forward.

[_antishock8]

Well, the key is keep doing nothing, insist current prophets have current relevant guidance for church membership, throw their past prophets under the bus, and push push push the good family/good community thing. They'll accommodate whatever social situations that come their way, but any quick change and they risk alienating too many members at once.

I think the Mormon church will always have a core body of believers and born-into-the-fold tithe payers, but as far as being a large denomination on par with other powerful organized religions it definitely has a challenge to maintain its fundamental claims to authority thanks to the Internet. The bottom line is I think there will be a slow amalgamation of other socio-religious American values into its own culture and the Mormon church that stands now will look as different to future members as the current church would look to the original saints.

[_harmony]

What is weird to me is that a church that claims to be run by Jesus Christ himself and run by prophets and apostles, is resorting to others to find ways to deal with these problematic issues.

What this tells me is not that Christ isn't at the head of the church. What it tells me is that our leaders, every one of them men, have not been listening. For a long time. For a very long time.

As for priesthood authority, until the church recognizes that they have no revelation for the basic priesthood authority necessary to run God's church, and that finding and verifying that revelation is the most important task they are currently faced with, they will continue to live in a bubble far away reality.

But where are the leaders of the church? Where is the prophet? The apostles?

The same place they always have been. Our leaders are so often flying blind, seeing through dark thick glass, and unable to admit they're just as lost and confused as everyone else. Ego runs this church and it's not getting any better with the younger leaders.

Where is God?

The same place he always has been. Just as he won't force anyone to heaven, he won't force church leaders to listen. They have the freedom to lead the church astray, and actually have been warned that the entire church is under condemnation (a prophecy given in ignorance to the real issues, but true nonetheless).

One thing is absolutely clear, the Church is currently without strong leadership. They are looking for direction anywhere they can get it: Marketing, PR firms, apologists, and teenage girls with blogs. The current leadership is in way over their head and they don't know how to move forward.

How can they be strong leaders? We haven't had a strong leader since... well, since never. That's what happens when freedom of choice includes no choices. We're handed a finished concept, and given no option but to vote for that person. True leadership is neither wanted nor accepted. As long as women are marginalized, as long as there is no voice allowed for the loyal opposition, as long as there is a no real choice of leaders we will continue to have this mess.

Oaks, Packer, and yes... Pres Monson are all to blame. And there is no.... absolutely no... chance that things will change. Church leaders will not ever allow the still small voice that says change is desperately needed, so the church will continue to bleed valuable people.

[_Scottie]

What this tells me is not that Christ isn't at the head of the church. What it tells me is that our leaders, every one of them men, have not been listening. For a long time. For a very long time.

So how is it that Nehor can have personal visits from God, Christ and Joseph Smith...multiple times...yet the leaders can't even hear the spirit?

[_John Larsen]

What this tells me is not that Christ isn't at the head of the church. What it tells me is that our leaders, every one of them men, have not been listening. For a long time. For a very long time.

So how is it that Nehor can have personal visits from God, Christ and Joseph Smith...multiple times...yet the leaders can't even hear the spirit?

Maybe Nehor is the one might and strong?

[_christopher]

It will be interesting to see if they go the inspired fiction route if they relegate Hinckley's "It all hinges on the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon" quote as opinion.

I don't think they can, because if fiction, how could Moroni be in Joseph's bedroom, or anywhere for that matter or how could we have land of Lamanites noted in the D&C?

Chris <><