Mike Ash radio interview today re Shaken Faith Syndrome

[_truth dancer]

I remember many years ago after moving away from belief coming to the realization that to remain in the LDS church requires accepting that:

1. Prophets are just old men sharing their opinions. (Forget about Christ leading the church and prophets being inspired or receiving revelation).
2. If you want/need to believe you just have to have faith that someday it will make sense.


Of course virtually every other religion on the planet is run by men sharing their opinions. And every religion asserts you must have faith that theirs is the truth.

So, why would one pick the LDS church as the church in which to have faith?

I couldn't think of a reason.

It is clear to me that apologists have moved away from the teachings I learned in the church, ie., prophets lead by inspiration, the church is led by Jesus Christ, follow the prophet, the church is more than the philosophies of man mingled with scriptures, etc. etc.

I wonder if the LDS church leaders are following suit? Or going to? Is Mike giving us a glimpse of things to come? ;-)

I'm going to prophesy, I mean predict that Mike is leading the way here.

Another ten yeas and Mike's perspective will be the norm. (smile)


td

[_Dr. Shades]

It is clear to me that apologists have moved away from the teachings I learned in the church, ie., prophets lead by inspiration, the church is led by Jesus Christ, follow the prophet, the church is more than the philosophies of man mingled with scriptures, etc. etc.

Yep. The whole show was two hours of Internet Mormonism on parade.

[_neworder]

For the record, I don't have a problem with the book title. I think it is somewhat clever and memorable. I am certainly not offended by the title, like at least one poster who apparently felt outraged about its similarity to "shaken baby syndrome". I do believe there is at least one scripture in the Bible that refers to "shaken faith" and even if not, it is certainly a widespread term regarding faith and many other matters. I wouldn't mind reading it to see what answers Mr. Ash proposes for LDS who have questions or doubts.

I also have no problem with "Shaken Faith" but I do with "Syndrome". Syndrome means "A group of symptoms that collectively indicate or characterize a disease, psychological disorder, or other abnormal condition."

So the title says if your faith has been shaken then you might have a disease, disorder, or something that is abnormal. The title points to the person that something is wrong with them, not that there might be something wrong with the "Faith".

While we're here, and since this is my thread so I can derail if I want to, are you getting some crazy stretchy looking posts lately? The first post of every thread is stretching out so I need to horizontal scroll to see it all. I think this started yesterday. I see nothing in said posts to make them stretch out like that (such as long links).

Shades is right that these are the banner ads doing this but it is also because this new template has forced "margins"/"white space" which creates all kinds of issues such as having to scroll left to right when there is white space that can be used. I mentioned it in another thread when the new board came up but it seems like I am the other one bothered by it.

[_Dr. Shades]

Shades is right that these are the banner ads doing this but it is also because this new template has forced "margins"/"white space" which creates all kinds of issues such as having to scroll left to right when there is white space that can be used. I mentioned it in another thread when the new board came up but it seems like I am the other one bothered by it.

I agree with you that white space should be utilized instead of forcing a horizontal scroll bar.

[_skippy the dead]

While we're here, and since this is my thread so I can derail if I want to, are you getting some crazy stretchy looking posts lately? The first post of every thread is stretching out so I need to horizontal scroll to see it all. I think this started yesterday. I see nothing in said posts to make them stretch out like that (such as long links).

I'll join your thread derail - try using Firefox with Adblock Plus. It gets rid of the ads altogether, leaving the posts on the thread looking as intended - no stretching.

[_neworder]

Shades is right that these are the banner ads doing this but it is also because this new template has forced "margins"/"white space" which creates all kinds of issues such as having to scroll left to right when there is white space that can be used. I mentioned it in another thread when the new board came up but it seems like I am the other one bothered by it.

I agree with you that white space should be utilized instead of forcing a horizontal scroll bar.

Code: Select all

#wrapper {
    width: 80%; margin: 0 auto;
   border-width: 1px;
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    margin-bottom: 0px;
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}

Pass on the information to Kene to change the style sheet so width reads 100% instead of 80% in the style sheet. I am sure he already knows this since he is the one that put it in there but that is where the white space is coming in at.

Also thanks for the notes on the interview!

[_mms]

IOf course virtually every other religion on the planet is run by men sharing their opinions. And every religion asserts you must have faith that theirs is the truth.

So, why would one pick the LDS church as the church in which to have faith?

I couldn't think of a reason.

td

This is the same response I have had over and over again when my friends say "Why don't you just have faith?" Why should I? In this Church? If it is simply saying what other Church's are saying? What if I don't like the culture of this Church? Shouldn't I then simply SELECT another Church in which to have faith?

[_Roger Morrison]

TD asks:

So, why would one pick the LDS church as the church in which to have faith? (Bold added by RM)

Generally speaking, people don't pick the LDS church. People are recruited into the LDS church. The reason for and the purpose of the 60,000+/- bodies in the World-Wide White-Shirt Brigade.

The very significant difference between the two entry types: People who "pick" are initiative takers. People who are "recruited" are generally more passive, noninitiative takers. They are most often recruited from a lower socio-economic strata who are more conditioned to obey/respect authority than are the more confident, assertive pro-actives who more often will become in-actives after a more critical analysis than the proselytized are capable of.

I imagine most perceptive RMs could validate that from their own experience...

Until recently few churches invested time & money (of others :-) into indoctrinating their members. The LDS church has for generations been applying true principles to build their false-faithed Ecclesiastical Empire.

Ya gotta give 'em credit! OPM, the key to profitable investment. Malls, land-banks, places to worship sitting on prime real estate that could be renoed to Community Centres by one word from the Profit Centre...

Mike Ash sounds like another poor soul happy in his illusion. Vane Hale (SP?) could be another one??? That they expose them selves to the broader society is a good thing...

[Guest]

I keep getting an image of someone shaking a Holy Roller until he has brain damage. Don't shake the Believer!

[_Mister Scratch]

I have to concur with the others who've praised Shades's write-up. Quite excellent, and perhaps unintentionally---it was side-splittingly funny. I especially liked the bit where Brother Ash asserted that FAIR has become less "in your face." I suppose he is referring to the break with the messageboard, which is now aptly named MAD. Aside from that, it is hard to see just how, exactly, FAIR has become less bellicose and aggressive. With Allen Wyatt running things, you can pretty much guarantee than vindictiveness will be the order of the day. In particular, I am thinking of the Keyes letter that he posted to the FAIR blog, and also their reaming of that other apologist---Meldrum, I believe his name was.

That said, I think the star these guys are steering by has to be FARMS/the MI. So long as The Good Professor & Co. engage in "in your face" antics, I think we will see it among the lesser apologists as well. DCP and the FARMS boys set the example for everyone else.