I will Believe the Book of Mormon as history when...

[_scipio337]

"Why Might a Person in 1830 Connect an Angel With a Salamander?" was certainly money well spent.

[_The Nehor]

Perhaps the apostates will need to cut themselves and howl at the moon first.

Well, hurry up and get on that.

[_Gadianton]

Oh I don't know Nehor, I think you need to direct your question to FARMS and FAIR. You need to ask them why they would want to prove it. Because, it's really looking like that's what they want to do. You need to Ask FARMS for their interpretation of Elija.

Or, rather, I should say, you should ask them why they want to use the same methods used for historical demonstrations to prove that the Book of Mormon is a 50-50 proposition (per Ray). So Nehor, why does FAIR exist? Why do they want to look for Nephite names carved in stone walls? Why are you asking me *why* instead of them?

[_The Nehor]

Oh I don't know Nehor, I think you need to direct your question to FARMS and FAIR. You need to ask them why they would want to prove it. Because, it's really looking like that's what they want to do. You need to Ask FARMS for their interpretation of Elija.

Or, rather, I should say, you should ask them why they want to use the same methods used for historical demonstrations to prove that the Book of Mormon is a 50-50 proposition (per Ray). So Nehor, why does FAIR exist? Why do they want to look for Nephite names carved in stone walls? Why are you asking me *why* instead of them?

If I understand them their goal is to use methods of investigation to show it as plausible, not proven. I have no problem with this.

[_Gadianton]

Oh ok, Nehor, let's keep playing word games. I will accept the Book of Mormon as plausible the day the Smithsonian accepts it as plausible. It makes no difference to my argument the level of certainty all you Mo's are comfortable with in your "scholarly" efforts.

I'll bet you plead with the Lord on your knees nightly that he doesn't unleash the floodgates of evidence and deprive the good people of the church, not to mention the folks at the Smithsonian, of the blessings of faith.

[_The Nehor]

Oh ok, Nehor, let's keep playing word games. I will accept the Book of Mormon as plausible the day the Smithsonian accepts it as plausible. It makes no difference to my argument the level of certainty all you Mo's are comfortable with in your "scholarly" efforts.

I'll bet you plead with the Lord on your knees nightly that he doesn't unleash the floodgates of evidence and deprive the good people of the church, not to mention the folks at the Smithsonian, of the blessings of faith.

I don't offer that prayer actually. I expect one day he will provide proof when he is ready. That will be both a glorious and very dark day. It's also probably a sign of the end. You misunderstand our concept of faith if you think proof can harm (or help) it.

[_Ray A]

I will also note that historical theories in general are shaky, and the Smithsonian probably doesn't have 95% certainty in whatever theories they do believe constitute history. So, I'd be willing to revise my statement and say that, if the Smithsonian ever comes to believe the Book of Mormon has a 50% chance of being real history, I'll believe it has a 50% chance. So, you can see that my objection still holds in its entirety, even given lowered expectations.

And I agree.

[_beastie]

If we wanted to draw people like crazy we'd probably be better off with public displays of Priesthood power involving moving mountains, parting seas, etc. then focusing on academia. Instead there is a small organization that dedicated to it and they work independently to satisfy the curiosity of those who care about that kind of information. Those who care = a small minority of members and a much, much smaller minority of non-members.

Why in the world would we want to prove it? In the Old Testament that got Elijah nowhere.

Yeah, we all know God doesn't want the riff-raff in his church. He's very selective. He only wants people who are able to believe in something that people without an emotional investment find about the equivalent of scientology.

[_Daniel Peterson]

Yeah, we all know God doesn't want the riff-raff in his church. He's very selective. He only wants people who are able to believe in something that people without an emotional investment find about the equivalent of scientology.

I've never understood why some people seem to find setting up straw men so deeply gratifying.

[_beastie]

I've never understood why some people seem to find setting up straw men so deeply gratifying.

If it's a strawman, you should take that up with nehor.