Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

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_Gadianton
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Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _Gadianton »

LoP,

In what way is Mister Scratch "following people around the internet?"

And the disgust is obvious. You aren't concerned about Scratch, or you wouldn't be making your comments publically like this. Publically questioning someones sanity might at a stretch be used in some very rare circumstances without intent to smear the person's good name, but 99.9% of the time its a way to sneak in a personal attack.

Perhaps you've forgotten about the many public smear campaigns your fellow apologist Wade Englund launched against people he either disagreed with or didn't like on the internet under the guise of "concern" and "reaching out" to someone who needs help.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_harmony
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Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _harmony »

LifeOnaPlate wrote:The Z board did not become MAD. Some Z posters got PO'd one day and left to form the FAIR board. The FAIR board morphed into MAD. The Z board still exists.


From what I understand, ZLMB was started by members of FAIR and others who wanted to have a board where respectful persons from different angles could be mods and facilitate a constructive dialog. It became apparent that it was in FAIR's best interest to become disassociated with the board, so they jettisoned it. I could be wrong, but that is what I have understood.


I was pointing out that your shorthand was not accurate. Z did not become MAD. Z still exists.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Gadianton
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Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _Gadianton »

LoP,

Like usual, you don't know what you're talking about. ZLMB was not started by FAIR. It was started and ran by people who got banned or left the UTLM board for the same reasons the critics got banned from MAD and formed this forum.

The leader of the Z board, Pacumeni, to my knowledge never had anything to do with FAIR and when he abandoned the board, it seemed as if real life priorities had arisen and he didn't just start up on another board.

Mister Scratch never posted on ZLMB. If he did, and if former Z participants know this, then it is through abusing moderator privilages behind the scenes across forums. Otherwise, they are lying to you.

ZLMB was never an "apologists" board, hence, this is why Brent was a mod, I was a mod, and beastie was a mod, as well as evangelicals and other non-mormons. ZLMB was never funded by FAIR, it raised its funds like this board does, by whoever wants to contribute and it still does.

Many of the early Z participants left before I even arrived there, probably because they weren't really interent kind of people in the first place. Many years later, the poster known as Juliann who was not a moderator at Z but had become friends with many of the mods there and primarily there arose a tight-knit "women's group" got caught in huge whopping "untruth" about a critic. Her friends, probably against their better judgement, tried to support her in this and they all came out looking bad. So some of the participants, mainly this group of women, already had become affiliated with FAIR it would seem, and FAIR had a low traffic board at the time and they all posted there a little. After this embarrassing turn of events for apologetics, they all basically abandoned ZLMB, a semi-free speech zone dedicated to giving all faiths or non equal say, for a tightly controlled LDS forum where critics could be censored when they made the apologists look bad. Mr. Scratch produced a fine article on this, coming to know about it years after it happened and researching the Z archives.

The FAIR board worked out for a couple of years or more, but the problem was, many critics could handle living their rules and continued to make the apologists look like fools. Beastie is a prime example. Her Mesoamerican studies were so detrimental to the apologist agenda, particularily dismantaling some deceptive statements by John Sornsen, that it got way out of control for the apologists. Beastie was respectful, she wasn't name-calling, she did nothing that the FAIR leaders could pin her with. But some of the participants were getting emails from BYU professors and posting them in a huge PR disaster where basically, Beastie was pwning the entire Maxwell Institute. And there was nothing to stop her, because she played by the rules.

So the leader of FAIR made an "executive decision" and banned Beastie, without anything to cite her for.

After that tell-tale moment in apologetic history, FAIR began realizing they were getting owned time and time again, and making themselves look bad. Even after altering the rules where FAIR exists, like UTLM, for their own purposes and nothing else, they still couldn't control the critics to their liking.

So FAIR jettisoned the "FAIR board" because it wasn't in FAIR's interest to show the world how they get owned by critics and how they themselves have to stoop to harsh words and underhanded tactics in order to fight back. In addition, given the lack of market for the materials they produce, market share being owned by Chapel Mormons like Rod Meldrum, they couldn't justify the costs.

So in the end, the participants at FAIR who wished to bad-mouth critics while being tired of getting their butts kicked in fair arguments, privately funded the MAD board where they could basically just pick and choose who posts and what goes on but without having to connect their deeds with FAIR, the organization.

Unfortunately for them, we all know that the main persons involved with FAIR are also involved with MAD, so we recognize MAD still as the official message board of FAIR, and representing the attitudes and position of FAIR in an official capacity.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Gadianton wrote:LoP,

In what way is Mister Scratch "following people around the internet?"


He/She has done so specifically in regards to myself. At one point Scratch was posting tallys of how many youtube videos have been viewed through my youtube account, dug up and posted about questions I asked on a Disneyland message board over 4 years ago, suggested that comments on other blogs made by other people should be called to the attention of my Stake President because scratch mistakenly believed it was I who posted them, etc. etc. It's not difficult to do, given that my real name is very accessible, and I generally use the same internet handle and have since about 2003. You might be unaware of these downright odd behaviors, but it is vintage Mister Scratch.

And the disgust is obvious. You aren't concerned about Scratch, or you wouldn't be making your comments publically like this. Publically questioning someones sanity might at a stretch be used in some very rare circumstances without intent to smear the person's good name, but 99.9% of the time its a way to sneak in a personal attack.

Certainly I have felt disgust at the behavior of Scratch, the reveling in making fun of other people, the strange conspiracy theories, the seeming paranoia, etc. but ultimately this board is the only avenue through which I can communicate with scratch, as I have no idea who he/she even is. Hopefully my honest recommendation will be taken up by others who are concerned, and perhaps more people other than I, whom Scratch essentially loathes, will speak up for their friend and say "you know what, scratch? maybe he has a point. Maybe you could visit a counselor." So far, those who give scratch their allegiance, unfortunately, only feed the fire with no attempt to put it out.

Perhaps you've forgotten about the many public smear campaigns your fellow apologist Wade Englund launched against people he either disagreed with or didn't like on the internet under the guise of "concern" and "reaching out" to someone who needs help.


I knew Wade had a reputation for poor internet behavior but until this last week I didn't know why. I knew how wade treated me, and I saw what he tried to do on this board and MAD, which recently has been in a pretty generous and open spirit. I've met wade in person and find him to be a very good man, despite former sins. I assure you that while I sometimes tease scratch a little, in this instance I'm not trying to do so. You don't have to believe that, but I really do think Scratch's behavior is very concerning. He/she never breaks character. I can't imagine someone being so vindictive so much.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_LifeOnaPlate
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Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

harmony wrote:I was pointing out that your shorthand was not accurate. Z did not become MAD. Z still exists.

Learn something new everyday, I guess. What was the name of the MAD board before it became MormonApologetics.org? Or was it always named such?
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_Jersey Girl
_Emeritus
Posts: 34407
Joined: Wed Oct 25, 2006 1:16 am

Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _Jersey Girl »

Gad:
former Z participants know this, then it is through abusing moderator privilages behind the scenes across forums.


And toward the end of my participation there, that's just exactly what they did. They abused moderator privileges out the wazoo.

When Scratch became aware of incidents that took place involving the Z trolls, instead of studying and researching the incidents, he MISREPRESENTED them on this very board, screwed it all up, accused ME of being one of "them", attempted to pump me for information and was all over me like a whore on a holiday in the chatroom and you yourself witnessed most, if not all, of that interrogation.

His method of questioning was entirely irrational, disconnected and not indicative of a stable personality by anyone's measure.

So you tell me, Gad, what justification do you see for that?
Last edited by Google Feedfetcher on Sun Aug 31, 2008 6:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.
Failure is not falling down but refusing to get up.
Chinese Proverb
_Ray A

Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _Ray A »

LifeOnaPlate wrote: What was the name of the MAD board before it became MormonApologetics.org? Or was it always named such?


It was just the FAIR board. It was listed as the message board attached to the main FAIR website, which now has no MB.
_LifeOnaPlate
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:50 pm

Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _LifeOnaPlate »

Ray A wrote:
LifeOnaPlate wrote: What was the name of the MAD board before it became MormonApologetics.org? Or was it always named such?


It was just the FAIR board. It was listed as the message board attached to the main FAIR website, which now has no MB.

Ah, gotcha.
One moment in annihilation's waste,
one moment, of the well of life to taste-
The stars are setting and the caravan
starts for the dawn of nothing; Oh, make haste!

-Omar Khayaam

*Be on the lookout for the forthcoming album from Jiminy Finn and the Moneydiggers.*
_harmony
_Emeritus
Posts: 18195
Joined: Fri Oct 27, 2006 1:35 am

Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _harmony »

Jersey Girl wrote:Gad:
former Z participants know this, then it is through abusing moderator privilages behind the scenes across forums.


And toward the end of my participation there, that's just exactly what they did. They abused moderator privileges out the wazoo.


My memory is sometimes faulty, but I think this applies to not all the Z mods. Some more than others, some not at all. And some that were sheep in wolves clothing.
(Nevo, Jan 23) And the Melchizedek Priesthood may not have been restored until the summer of 1830, several months after the organization of the Church.
_Gadianton
_Emeritus
Posts: 9947
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 5:12 am

Re: Online Apologetics and "Collateral Damage"

Post by _Gadianton »

LoP wrote:Some people from the old Z board have been in touch with me explaining that you were once a somewhat pleasant person, though you seemed very interested in seeking the approval of others.


Let me remind LoP of his own words. After thousands of posts on MAD (more on MAD alone than I've ever made on the internet in 7 years and I admit I have a problem) and affiliating with FAIR in person, he is just now learning about the historical roots of FAIR/MAD, and who from? The critics!

What a perfect example of apologists covering up history.

And yet it remains, former ZLMB participants have PM'd LoP with false accusations about Mister Scratch, given he never participated at Z. And LoP spews out all this unvarified gossip as fact, and then has the audacity to criticize Scratch when Scratch "follows people around' or in other words, simply checks the source material available for accuracy.

Yes LoP, you're a great example of how to operate on a message board, because you post thousands of posts, many concerning board politics and internet personalities, without having any first hand knowledge of what you're talking about. Because if you did bother to read the Z archives or what's available on MAD from FAIR, that would constitute "following people around' and harrassing them?

Further, you are suspicious of Scratch's mental stability because of his bulletin board behavior, while you are not suspicious of Wade's after his many, many hoaky internet campaigns that have gone to the lengths of purchasing webspace as a front to launch his assaults, because well, you've met him in person.

This is outrageous.


This is outrageous.
Lou Midgley 08/20/2020: "...meat wad," and "cockroach" are pithy descriptions of human beings used by gemli? They were not fashioned by Professor Peterson.

LM 11/23/2018: one can explain away the soul of human beings...as...a Meat Unit, to use Professor Peterson's clever derogatory description of gemli's ideology.
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