Exmormon Foundation Conference

[_moksha]

Just the smart ones.

Moksha must find relief in this.

Actually I do. It is so much easier to understand where atheists are coming from than attack dogs for Jesus, who are nipping at the heels of Mormonism.

[_collegeterrace]

Moksha must find relief in this.

Actually I do. It is so much easier to understand where atheists are coming from than attack dogs for Jesus, who are nipping at the heels of Mormonism.

Anyone else miss my joke besides mock'sha?

[Guest]

The Ex-Mormons I know are happy to be free from believing in falsehoods, even if the process of leaving behind magical thinking for rational thinking is a difficult one emotionally.

I don't know if this is supposed to be a veiled insult or an explicit one, but I do, in fact, personally know people who experienced, and still experience pain over their loss of faith in the gospel. For you to paint all the former Mormons you know as happy, etc. is fine, but it doesn't take into account those who feel otherwise. I don't claim that all Mormons I know are much happier as Mormons than they might otherwise be, for example.

I don't accept the black/white dichotomy applied to happiness. My experience has been that I have been happy to be free from the mindfuck of Mormonism. At the same time, the process of leaving the church to which I devoted my time, talents, and everything with which I was "blessed" was at times excruciatingly painful, emotionally wrenching, and psychically tortuous. It's not as simple as saying I am "happier" now than when I was an active, true-believing Latter-day Saint. In many ways, I most certainly am. In some ways, life was certainly easier inside Plato's proverbial cave. I think we may actually be in agreement on this. I didn't mean to imply that former Mormons are all living perpetually cheerful lives. Far from it.

Edited to add: sorry, I am new to this board and didn't realize F-bombs were not allowed in the Terrestrial Forum. PG-13 movies can have one F-bomb without getting an R rating, though, so technically I should have been OK. But I won't drop any more in this forum. Peace.

[_collegeterrace]

Dianne,

Check out this exmo comedian, Bengt Washburn.

He is hil-friggin-larious!

On coffee in Boise: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKe_7wXmPlo

About his mission: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lG8zf5H2KY

It would be a hoot to see him at the exmo conference! Anyway to try and get him out there?

[_Dianne Ormond]

I loved his mission one!
I've passed on this information to Sue who schedules the speakers. I know it's too late for this year because the agenda is already too crowded with extra things that have been squeezed in.
Next year may be a possibility. Thanks for the tip.

[Guest]

.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

What I didn't understand were the following two situations.
First, later that Sunday after the blessing we were having a nice little family dinner, all extended family present were invited. My mother refused to attend because she was afraid she'd say something that would offend someone. It was a friendly family get together, we were just there to have fun and enjoy each other's presence, but she would have none of it. Does she really have that little self control that she couldn't keep the subject of religion out of conversation for one hour?

Ryan,

I don't know you or your mother well enough to form a full opinion on what you've both gone through together, but I can share some of my personal insight to the thought you shared that I quote here.

If, by chance, your entire extended family who came to the nice little family dinner you held were all Mormon, I can understand why Dianne may not have wanted to attend. I am amazed when hanging out with my active LDS friends and family how much church comes up in conversation. It is very difficult to know quite what to say (or not say) when faced with so much discussion about it all. It is as if that is all they can think about or discuss, and this is likely because it is so pervasive and all-encompassing in people's lives.

Being around people who bring up church topics in almost every conversation is draining, because it is fully expected that those views being openly shared not be disagreed with or questioned. In a child's blessing situation, it is expected that people rave and gush over the blessing, the baby's special behavior during the blessing, the white clothes denoting purity, and the special men included in the giving of the blessing, which women are excluded from participating in. Perhaps if you were excluded from such a special occasion in your child's or grandchild's life, you'd understand a bit better her feelings. For me, it is painful to watch such events as beautiful and touching, when they are for me such blatant representations of patriarchy and how subtly harmful it can be to women.

And I'm not speaking for you, but my active LDS family seem to love to make little comments like testimonies of the goodness of the gospel which I'm expected to swallow and endure in politeness every single time. It can be difficult and most definitely something I have to consciously consider each time I visit, and it is sometimes best to avoid the conflict.

I'm sorry you feel hurt by this in your situation. It is so difficult to not be passionate when you are a believing Mormon, and it is difficult to not be passionate when you lose that belief and consider it a fraud.

I wish you all luck and healing and peace.

[_harmony]

On numerous occasions I've requested very kindly that my mother respect my beliefs.

And have you respected her beliefs and sought to make her comfortable in your home? How exactly did you do this?

First of all, showing someone respect is a higher form of showing love than ramming stuff they don't want down their throats.

You might want to make sure you are first examining the mote in your eye before you start pulling the beam out of hers.

What I didn't understand were the following two situations.
First, later that Sunday after the blessing we were having a nice little family dinner, all extended family present were invited. My mother refused to attend because she was afraid she'd say something that would offend someone. It was a friendly family get together, we were just there to have fun and enjoy each other's presence, but she would have none of it. Does she really have that little self control that she couldn't keep the subject of religion out of conversation for one hour?

Did the extended family keep religion out of the conversation for an hour? Is she supposed to just sit and allow references to religion to swirl all around her and she not supposed to reply in the interest of family peace? How do others respect her beliefs?

Second the entire time they were here in Iowa which was about two and a half days my mother stepped in our home once for 1 minute. She came in looked at my son, she didn't even care to touch her grandson let alone hold him, and walked right back out. The only time she spoke to my wife or I was when she was forced into a social setting when we went to eat lunch at a local mexican restaurant. The whole rest of the time as my father and sister visited with my wife and I she stayed out in the car listening to who knows what on tape. That doesn't sound to me like someone who really cares about their family. We invited her in on several occasions just to visit and have fun, but she wouldn't have it.

I suspect she's been in several of those "just visit and have fun" activities, only to have them descend into discussions on her personal choices.

Believe me if there is anything keeping us from associating with my mother it is not the church. We dropped the subject of religion a long time ago and have tried to just be friends with her, which as I mentioned earlier is impossible if what you believe and think is not exactly what she believes and thinks. If she spent 1/1,000,000th of the amount of time she spends on the internet and watching TV, with her family she might actually have a relationship with them. You truly see where someone's heart is by the way in which they spend their time. I've only lived more than a 10 minute drive away from my mother for the last two years. I'm sorry to say that if you put the amount of time my mother has spent with me together over the past 7 years, including when I flew home this last February for her father's funeral, it wouldn't fill the space of even 1 day. I'm not going to be naïve and say it's all her fault because it's not, but she does make it nearly impossible. Screw religion, screw science, how about we try being a family again.

I'm betting your family wouldn't let her live her choices, Ryan. Your comments below show exactly how hard it is for someone like your mom to walk away from the church... that constant dig dig dig gets not only annoying, but takes the heart right out of people.

To all of you out there who've been angered/disillusioned/betrayed/.../etc. by the church I'm sorry that you feel that way and I think you've missed something.

"I think you've missed something" is one of the little digs that families love to lodge in family members like your mother, Ryan. You just proved your mother's point.

So now you judge not only your mom, but everyone else in the same situation as "missing something". Nice. You're smarter than everyone like your mom, you know best for everyone like your mom. And you wonder why your mom avoids family situations?

You have a long way to go in the building-family-relationships department.

But, please no matter what your feelings are for the church etc. don't let them get in the way of the more important things such as your family, and just being kind to other people. Keep those things which are most important to you close to your heart, spend the necessary time to keep them important to you.

Perhaps respecting your family needs to start with you respecting your mother's choices.

By their fruits ye shall know them.

Indeed.

[_Bond James Bond]

This exchange brought to you by "something more awkward that a DCP-Scratch lunch."

[_Trinity]

Hi Ryan,

Nice to meet you. I know your mother quite well and know her to be a caring and loving person.

I am curious. What do you hope to accomplish by following your mom onto a message board that is sympathetic to her position and openly criticizing her? Do you feel this will endear you to her? Do you think this will help to resolve the currently existing tensions in your relationship?

Any enlightenment would be appreciated. I hope you will care enough to take your issues directly to your mom in the future and not air them to her peers. As with all things in the world, shaming is a poor motivator for change.