Mormons don't really believe in revelation by the Spirit.

[_asbestosman]

Notice that the only example out of thousands of diverse family situations that you could come up with where it's OK to be a "different" family is by being a widow or widower. All other families who aren't this model family as outlined in the Proclamation are viewed as less than ideal and somehow lacking. I know this is true, having been married to a non-member for 14 years while being an active Mormon, and being consistently placed on the fringes of the crowd, because I was different. Because I took my kids to church alone. People at church treat people who aren't the "ideal" differently.

While I am sorry to hear of your situation, you have misread my point. Sometimes people make mistakes which leads to less-than-ideal situations but for which they do not deserve a metaphorical scarlet A. Repent and sin no more. Also, some situations happen because one party hurts the other.

And it is implied, like you just did, that if you don't live that, you haven't sought out the righteous path for yourself, or it's assumed you haven't attempted to strive hard enough for it.

I neither implied nor thought any such thing.

I wonder if a righteous young LDS man would rather choose to marry a young, righteous, beautiful divorcee with three kids, or a young, righteous, beautiful, single woman who'd never been married yet. Only one of them fits the "ideal" he should strive for as outlined in the Proclamation.

Balderdash.

If an LDS woman has a very best friend who isn't LDS, and they love each other with all their hearts, and he is the perfect mate for her in all ways, she will be discouraged from seeking him for her mate, because he is not "ideal." I find this so sad, pointless, and wrong.

Ah, so that's the real problem. I think it's an issue of perspective. I find that loving God and considering an eternal perspective is far more important than anything else. If you disagree, well, that is your decision. I think it makes the most sense from an eternal perspective to find a companion you can share the eternities with and who will be equally yoked in raising your children in the gospel. If you disagree, then perhaps your priorities are different in such a way that I find baffling. Mormonism is something that demands total commitment. That said, you don't deserve a scarlet A.

[_asbestosman]

All I saw were these words:

. . . your brain. . .much desired. . .

Something whispered to me that this is true.

While you're certainly not the first to covet my brain, let me just clairify that it is not for sale. It's a pity too as it might help you to comprehend what I truly wrote and maybe enable you to perform such complex tasks as chewing bubble gum while typing.

[_asbestosman]

Only what if she was raped by her supposedly righteous boyfriend at BYU, and this is what resulted in her pregnancy? This is not a story a woman openly shares with all her dates (at least those LDS boys willing to look past her "sin" enough to actually ask her out even though she's got a kid).

The Proclamation hurts many people in the church who have realities in their lives that are far from the "ideal" we are all to strive for. It's tragic, and so unnecessary and wrong to pit one little scenario of family life as the only one we should strive for. Sad.

Victims of rape need help, not condemnation. We know that. That does not mean every man is mature enough to help such a victim through her difficulties which can also vary depending on the victim.

That said, there is not connection between rape and what we should strive for. As I'm sure you'll agree, the ideal situation would never include rape, thus I fail to see a connection. We should still strive for the ideal where we can. Where circumstances have made that impossible, then we should get the help we need and continue striving for the best we can.

[_asbestosman]

Trust me, just because a man holds the priesthood does not guarantee he'll be a good mate.

Of course. However, a person who places God and the gospel first will be looking for a mate she can share the eternities with.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

And it is implied, like you just did, that if you don't live that, you haven't sought out the righteous path for yourself, or it's assumed you haven't attempted to strive hard enough for it.

I neither implied nor thought any such thing.

Yes, the entire setup of the Proclamation as being what every LDS family should strive to be sets up all families and members who are not living this "ideal" to be judged by others who do fit the ideal ~ they speculate why the others haven't striven as hard as they have to achieve this ideal. It is implicit in every method the prophet, the apostles, and the lesson manuals teach the Proclamation to the membership.

If an LDS woman has a very best friend who isn't LDS, and they love each other with all their hearts, and he is the perfect mate for her in all ways, she will be discouraged from seeking him for her mate, because he is not "ideal." I find this so sad, pointless, and wrong.

Ah, so that's the real problem.

"The real problem"?? What are you talking about?

[_asbestosman]

If your "ideal" are those who believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and all that comes with it then they're the people he's talking to. I wouldn't hold my breath on waiting for the Prophet to give counsel specifically to those who ignore his counsel. I'll expect that on the day he starts giving specialized counsel for homosexual relationships and on how to safely maintain a moderate drug habit.

If you find the counsel of the Prophets unworkable or are sure that you are the exception then you need to turn to God to get your own counsel. If you're not in a spiritual place where you can get that counsel then you need to get there.

QFT. Dang, The Nehor has outdone me once again.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

Trust me, just because a man holds the priesthood does not guarantee he'll be a good mate.

Of course. However, a person who places God and the gospel first will be looking for a mate she can share the eternities with.

Which implies that a person like me, married to a non-member, isn't striving for the righteous things God would have me strive for. See? This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say people find you lacking. People automatically assume that you are not one who places God first. Sad.

[_asbestosman]

Yes, the entire setup of the Proclamation as being what every LDS family should strive to be sets up all families and members who are not living this "ideal" to be judged by others who do fit the ideal ~ they speculate why the others haven't striven as hard as they have to achieve this ideal.

Just because there is a standard one should strive for does not mean we should judge anyone who hasn't reached that ideal. We don't know why they haven't reached it and we don't know their hearts. People repent, and we shouldn't hold the past against them forever. I'm sorry that many members do that, but doesn't mean that we should stop teaching what ideal situation is to strive for.

Ah, so that's the real problem.

"The real problem"?? What are you talking about?

Priorities. You value something above the gospel.

[Analytics]

Which implies that a person like me, married to a non-member, isn't striving for the righteous things God would have me strive for. See? This is exactly what I'm talking about when I say people find you lacking. People automatically assume that you are not one who places God first. Sad.

I give up. You win. I am a hateful judgmental person like the rest of 'em and prove that the Mormon church is wrong and should support gays, etc. etc.

You may very well try to place God first, but you do not believe that the LDS church is the only church with all the priesthood keys. That was what I meant when I talk about putting God first. I really see the church and the priesthood keys as an extension of God. Since you don't, we are unable to communicate effectively.

[_Sister Mary Lisa]

All I saw were these words: "...your brain...much desired..." Something whispered to me that this is true.

While you're certainly not the first to covet my brain, let me just clairify that it is not for sale. It's a pity too as it might help you to comprehend what I truly wrote and maybe enable you to perform such complex tasks as chewing bubble gum while typing.

Sorry, I was talking to Equality, just as you were in the words I quoted here. He knows what I meant by "much desired." Sorry if you felt like this was a criticism on you, it was not. And my comprehension skills are quite fine. Thanks for your exemplary concern.